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Calvin Pringles: Real Estate Sales, Wholesaling & Flips

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Pretty quickly, Calvin Pringles realized he didn't want to take the "traditional" path in real estate. He saw an opportunity for something more that would build wealth and provide a path to get what he wanted in life. He learned from a mentor and got to see the investment side of the business as a bird-dog for a local investor. From there, he got his license and has been growing his business over the past 4 years. In 2021, Calvin will have helped on 25 units, 3 wholesale deals, and 2 flips where he is a real estate agent in the Tampa, FL market. In 2022 he's looking to add some additional leverage while building a team to be able to provide opportunity for others and begin to leverage his time and expertise to bigger and better things.

 

In this episode, hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:

  • Calvin got his start working in investments, became a real estate agent as a way to be able to build wealth and gain passive income.
  • Calvin started in real estate thru Chris and Nicole, which were his mentors. They would knock on doors, call probates, leave flyers, do everything, just to get Chris properties and learn the process of buying and holding properties, building recession proof portfolio, and flipping properties as well.
  • He plans in setting up his own business by focusing in listing and scaling. Hiring someone to manage social media, hiring someone to manage reaching out to clients in his database, hiring someone to send out closing gifts, etc. That way he can focus on listings.
  • He left his team midway of 2020 and this is his first year of being single agent. His goal is to double his units.
  • Calvin is into hiring a real estate coach in order for him to become a good realtor. This is part of his foundation.
  • People can learn more about Calvin thru social media - Curated by Calvin.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro and overview on Calvin’s career.
01:53 - How Calvin started in real estate.
04:50 - Calvin’s plan in owning his business.
14:57 - How Calvin see his business grow and his future plans.
21:03 - Talking about Atomic Habits by James Clear.
27:10 - How people can connect to Calvin.

 

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Full transcript here:

Mike Swenson 

Welcome to The REL freedom podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.

 

Mike Swenson 

All right, welcome, everybody to another episode of The REL freedom Podcast. Today, we've got Calvin Pringles here. And Calvin got his start in actually working in investments, became a real estate agent as a way to be able to build wealth gained passive income, exactly all the stuff that we want to highlight here. In this episode of the podcast right now, Calvin will close 2021 doing about 25 units. He's also had three wholesale deals and has been involved in two flips. So certainly looking at diversifying your portfolio, building different opportunities in real estate and really see real estate as the vehicle for you to gain time and financial freedom. So Calvin is a real estate agent in Tampa, Florida. And we are so excited to have you Why don't you just introduce yourself and share a little bit more information about you, Kevin,

 

Calvin Pringles 

I appreciate you having me. First and foremost, Mike, you know, I think that you kind of touched on everything I kind of stumbled into real estate accidentally, because I came home, you know, the First Family graduate in came on with my degree and thought I was like, you know, top notch like the big dog mountain because I had a degree in my hand and I struggled to find someone that would hire me just simply because I didn't have any experience in anything that I was doing. I graduated a degree in marketing, so primarily targeting sales positions. And because I didn't have any sales experience, I couldn't get a job. So stumbled into my coach's office, and I asked them for my alma mater High School. And I asked him, I said, Hey, Coach, do you know anybody in real estate? And he said, yeah, there's a kid on our team. He, his dad, is flip 20 houses this year, something crazy like that. And, you know, I'll make the introduction for you so called Chris, Chris was my mentor, I called him and his wife, Nicole, they kind of brought me up under their wing and my business partner in my case, and at the time, we were just bird dogs.

 

Calvin Pringles 

So just people that specialize in acquisition for one person, we would knock on doors, call probates, leave flyers do everything, just to get Christian properties and learn the process of buying and holding properties, building recession proof portfolio, and flipping properties as well. So now, you know, it's cool, because it's a tool in my tool belt, when I walk through a property with a client, you know, buyer or seller, I can walk through and give them an estimate of what a general contractor would charge to replace items or you know, do flooring or kitchens, or whatever like that. So definitely appreciate appreciated the opportunity in doing that. And then not only that, you know, having the opportunity to be invested into real estate and learning, you know, without using any of my own money, you know, it's all Christmas money. So, you know, he gained a lot of money, he lost money. So it was just very, very cool and reflective.

 

Mike Swenson 

Yeah, and I love a couple things about that. One is, you know, I was remembering back when I was in college, and I had a professor in management. And he said, You know, I'm an I'm an extreme introvert by nature. So I'm not one to go pound the pavement and knock on doors and be excited about that. And he always said, you know, the best thing that you can do to be successful in business is to go into sales. And at the time, I was a, I was a finance major. And so I was you know, a spreadsheet nerd. And loved doing that actually taking some real estate classes too. But I was like, I just don't see the value of that. And now looking back, I see how much you can learn from sales and for you to get a chance to expose yourself to all areas of real estate before you got your license is just a great foundation for you that now you have so much that you can build off of because you spent that time doing that and and yeah, it probably wasn't the most lucrative thing. And yet the lessons that you're going to learn the experience that you have is going to help you make a lot of money in the future.

 

Calvin Pringles 

Yeah, absolutely. And just working with them alongside them. You know, I was able to learn how to build a business out of real estate as well. You know, Robert Kiyosaki talks about Cashflow Quadrant, you know, the most successful people are the business owners. And at this time, I'm, I feel like, I own a job. Right. So I'm in the s category, and I you know, I don't own a business. So that's that's the transition for 2022 is to make that full transition and to go from the s category to the B category.

 

Mike Swenson 

Awesome in what are your plans for being able to do that or what are kind of the next steps for you?

 

Calvin Pringles 

So primarily, I'm focused on obtaining listings. So that's my number one priority. I call for about four to five hours a day on a good week. You know, so long as nothing pops up and you know, the real estate world. Yep. But I'm strictly calling FizzBuzz for sale by owners expireds cancelled listings off market listings and then also circle prospecting for investment properties as well as listing. So you know, kind of where different two different hats so I'm calling sometimes. Like, for instance, today I was I called a Fizbo. and introduced myself, Hey, Calvin bring a bone weed real estate con about the property have for sale? Is it still available? Yeah, he's like, man, but I'm gonna tell you what, I don't really need a real estate agent. In fact, I bought this house, you know, 10 years ago for a steal 20 grand, which is almost, you know, non existent in Tampa 10 years ago, let alone today.

 

Calvin Pringles 

And he goes, Hey, I got it listed for 200. But I'll take 165 for it. I said, Well, you know, 165, you know, pull it plug in my calculator? Yeah, that's a nine cap. So who can I sell this property to? Or do I want to go and look at it myself? What's the appreciation rate in the area? So then we can go from there. But primarily to answer your question wrap, you know, kind of wrap things up just primarily focused on listings. And also scaling through leverage. So like hiring someone to manage social media, hiring someone to manage reaching out to clients in my database, hiring someone to send out gifts to my close and get my close clients. So just just about leverage and focusing on listings.

 

Mike Swenson 

Well, and even even when you share that story about the Fizbo, it just shows how your mind is working different than the average agent, because the average agent is just just focused on sales, right? And they're either looking at, am I gonna get this listing or not, am I gonna be able to have a sale or not. And immediately, when somebody says, Hey, I'm gonna, I'd be interested in selling it for 165, a light belt light bulb triggers for you, and you start putting on your investment hat, and it could be for somebody else, or it could be for yourself in the future. And so you're already running down two lanes at the same time, where, you know, a lot of times people in real estate, like I said, they just focus on the sales.

 

Mike Swenson 

And it's like how much money that I make this year in sales. Either I could sell copy machines, or I could sell financial investments, or I could sell real estate, and they're only thinking about that sale. But but having that opportunity, you know, talking about wholesaling, and we can get into that next is, you see an opportunity like that you could buy it, or you could put it under contract for 165. Maybe you sell it for 175 or 185. For you know, who knows, who knows how much you can make off of it. But that's already another area of opportunity that you've opened up just by thinking differently than the average agent.

 

Calvin Pringles 

Yeah, one thing I was thinking about dealing with this one, in specific this specific deal was, you know, it's fully it's been cosmetically fully updated. It just needs a new roof and a new AC. So the guy wants cash only as his deal, which, you know, obviously shrinks the marketability of the property, right? If I'm to, like wholesale it, for instance, and then I can sell it for 240, you know, replace the roof replace the AC, I can sell it for 240 tomorrow. So do I want to wholesale it as well. I mean, the guy clearly does not care, he just wants to offer this off of his belt, you know, and he had bad rental experience in the past, which is why he's parting ways with it. But you know, wholesaling is as another as another opportunity.

 

Mike Swenson 

So you had mentioned that you had done, you know, three wholesale deals this year, how have those, how did those pop up?

 

Calvin Pringles 

So, one actually came from my previous broker, and then the other two, I had one come from, or no, these other two actually came from Facebook marketplace. So you know, like, if you ever like read an old real estate book, like even one that was from like the early 2000s, they tell you to drive around and look for for rent by owner sign. Well, if you go to Facebook marketplace, this is like the you know, 2021 version of this, if you go to Facebook marketplace and just look at places for rent, that aren't listed by like Zumper, or another property management company or property advertising company or other you know, and you message those people what I would do is I would go on Facebook marketplace and I would message them and say hey, would you consider an offer for this property? Right?

 

Calvin Pringles 

What's the price and one instance the guy was in pre foreclosure he said, Hey, yes, I do want to you know, he's written it out by the room just trying to catch up on his mortgage. And then the other one I had my one of my partners go out and take a look at it and he had a buyer for it that day. So lady wanted like 150 for it, we were able to sell it for like 175 and then they ended up adding like doing a value add on doing a third bedroom that the investor This is ended up selling it for like 250 So there's plenty of meat on the bone.

 

Mike Swenson 

You know, I work with investors here locally. And you know, we we talked about that too. You're looking for tired landlords where, you know, they've they've been through the grind. They're maybe renting things out for under market so they're not making as much as they can. They might not have the money to be able put into it, that they'd like to, to be able to bring it up to market rents. And so you find a lot of these, these landlords that maybe just own a couple properties, you know, they're not they're not high end, they're just tired. You know, it's, it's the grind, they think that they could make a lot of money in real estate. And so they get into it, and maybe they just made some bad business decisions, or maybe life has happened to them. And they're, they're just in a tough spot right now. And so yeah, that's another great opportunity of ways to find things. So. So yeah, congratulations for being able to do the sales as well as the wholesales. And then let's let's touch on the flips, too. How did you how did you get involved with those.

 

Calvin Pringles 

So I've not been like the person that is actually managing the contractors, and I'm just a financial investor in them. So get a friend that I'm not like, it's kind of fun. But a guy that does some flips here locally in there, he just raises money says, Hey, I got this deal, I analyze the deal, look at it, give him some money. And then he also has a real estate license, so he sells it, and then at the end of closing, just get paid out whatever the return on investment. And so if it's like a 10% ROI over six months, I mean, that makes sense all day, you know, so that those are the two that I've been involved in?

 

Mike Swenson 

Well, I mean, you add those things up, and with the sales, the wholesales and the flips, that turns out to be a pretty decent income, as well as opportunity for future growth. Because, you know, this year, it's, it's 25 sales, it's three wholesales and it's it's two flips. Next year, it could be double that in both lanes. And so you know, you really are positioning yourself to be successful, because you have different lanes that you can run behind, we talked about the leverage, you can leverage the sales side of your business, you can leverage the wholesale side of your business and the flip side too.

 

Mike Swenson 

And if you do decide, as you build good partnerships with great vendors, maybe you do want to take a more active role in flips or more buy and hold investments because a flip is just a job, you know, it's you put money in, you do something you get money back, where if you could turn that into a buy and hold over time, now you've got an asset that can appreciate and take advantage of that. So I really love what you're doing and how you've positioned yourself for for many, many years of success, and there's a lot of real estate agents out there that have been in the business a heck of a lot longer than you that don't have a clue of what else to do to help build wealth. But you've you've got the great mindset, and you've you've got a great strategy to be able to execute that.

 

Calvin Pringles 

Yeah, one of one of my main things. And you see in every single market, and you know, if someone's listening to this, and they're one of these people, like there's no offense to be put on this person, but I it's not my life destiny, and not a part of my big why to chase commission checks for the next 40 years of my life, right? There's those these these big dog agents 60 70 something years old, and they're still going on listing appointments, it does not fulfill me to do those things, especially when I'm, you know, reaching the age of retirement and I have grandkids or whatever it is. So right now, that's my primary focus is laying that foundation for scalability and leverage ability,

 

Mike Swenson 

being able to succeed through others, you know, to be to be able to put on that leadership hat, you could then decide whether you want to take a listing, or whether you want to give that opportunity for somebody else on your team in the future to take that listing. Also, along with that comes, hey, if you're taking a vacation, if you have others that you're working with, they can help with your calls, they can help with your meetings when you're on vacation, and you can truly enjoy a vacation instead of the realtor that's you know, sitting alongside the beach, and they've got their laptop out. And they're they're working their phones, and they're basically just doing their job in a different location. You know, in Minnesota, we like to go to Tampa on vacation, and I could just be sitting alongside Calvin on the beach, doing the same thing I'm doing in Minnesota, it's warmer, but I don't actually get a break. But when you have that leverage, you can be able to take those breaks when you want to and you can turn up the dial and get more busy. Or you can turn back the dial and pass things off to other people on your team. And that's that's the power of that leverage.

 

Calvin Pringles 

Yeah, yeah, I completely get that because, you know, I was actually just having a conversation with one of my friends earlier this week, or over the weekend. And, you know, I told her, I said, Whenever I go on vacation, I get like work anxiety. Like I feel like I need to be at home. I feel like I need to be just like looking at my computer, even if I'm not doing anything. But being at home gives me the sense of comfort like, Hey, I'm ready to work. If a buyer calls me they want to go see a house later that day. I'm ready to work I can be there for that rather than having to like jump through hoops and higher showing assistance and this that and the other. So I just want to get to that point where I don't have working that I can just go on vacation and enjoy myself.

 

Mike Swenson 

And it's hard because you're so used to be Responsive to people answering your phone when they call, it's hard to turn that off. But yet, that's how you're going to get more energized when you come back as because you've been able to fully recharge the batteries versus, you know, kind of kind of operating, kind of not operating, you're on, you're off, you're on, you're off, but you can take that time off. So what are some other future plans that you have, as you know, so So 2022, you're going to focus on listings getting that leverage, maybe having a buyer's agent, where do you want to see that business grow.

 

Calvin Pringles 

So I want to double my units, it's actually been my goal, a goal of mine. So a little bit of background, I actually left the team that I was on, in 2021, or 2020, midway through 2020. So this year is my first full year as a single agent, I carried over the same production, which is great. But my goal for the past few years has been 50 units and 10 million. So I don't see a point in changing my goal and trying to like, you know, say okay, well, I've done 25 For the last two years, I'm trying to figure out that 50 unit 10 million goal. So that's my goal until I hit it. I'm just trying to figure out the recipe to it. And, you know, just basically stick into that.

 

Mike Swenson 

And how are you thinking that you would? And maybe you haven't thought about it yet, but in terms of a buyer's agent, or you know, bringing somebody on Have you have you given much thought to how you're going to execute on that? Or what kind of what plans you might have. So I haven't

 

Calvin Pringles 

I think my first hire will probably be a team lead. But it depends on like the source of business. So you know, if I'd carry over this year, at 67% representation of buyers and my business, if I carry over that same thing next year, right 50 units is six 7%, what are the 32? Right 30 ish units, I think it'll be a little bit too busy. So I'll need to hire out, you know, like a team lead or something like that. Now, if it's primarily listings, then I can hire out a buyer's agent to focus on those buyers. As far as how, I don't know, I know the type of person I'd be looking for. And it's something you know, that someone that's young, maybe fresh out of college, you know, pay for their real estate course, just so I can coach them the way that I want to coach them, rather than picking up someone who's struggled and maybe has built on bad techniques and bad skills in the past? Because I feel like it's always harder to break through those rather than just, you know, kind of pick and choose from someone that's fresh.

 

Mike Swenson 

Yeah, no, I would agree. I mean, we've, you know, I've worked on, you know, some large teams in the past. And, you know, we've always gone back and forth, there's some, there's some teams where they don't hire anybody with any previous real estate experience, because you've built bad habits, maybe not even professional habits, but, but also work ethic habits, just getting lazy with stuff not following up with people. So it's great to take somebody who's maybe had success in a previous era in a different industry, or somebody who is looking to kind of get into the business, and they are young and hungry. And they're, you know, excited to be there. And they really like to learn, you can build off of that foundation.

 

Mike Swenson 

But if you have an agent that's been been an agent for five years, and has only done maybe seven to 10 units each year, well, what are you going to change that's going to get them to do more than that, because they're comfortable doing seven to 10 units for the last five years, it's kind of harder to get somebody to change that way of thinking or change the way of behavior they're versus taking somebody brand new teaching them the skills, and they can go blow through the roof.

 

Calvin Pringles 

Right. Yeah, I absolutely 100% agree with that. And then, you know, it's interesting that you said, you know, you find the agent that gets comfortable, because I almost feel like there was a sense of comfort in my year this year. And this is sort of like a new reflection for me, because, you know, you think about it, you're on a team, you typical team splits are 5050 Right? So, you know, this year, as far as GCI goes, I mean, my GCI is almost double doing the same exact unit. So I'm introducing, I guess my life is being introduced to like new income. So I feel like that brings like a level of comfort in itself. But you know, now it's just about like, breaking through if you've ever seen like that picture of the guy and he's digging in the hole. And the first guy stops when he hits rocks, right and then the second guys right behind him and just hits like the pickaxe one time, and he goes into all these diamonds. I feel like that's where I am right now.

 

Mike Swenson 

The one is thinking about when you first mentioned it is the guy's digging a hole. And he actually turns away and gives up and what you can see is he's actually just like one sliver away from break through to the gold. And and I think that's something that happens in real estate too, as people give up too quickly, because if you're in this business long enough, you're gonna be successful. You're gonna put the pieces together to build something really big and I think a lot of times people you know, fourth You're in real estate, somebody might look up and say, well, but I, I was in my past sales job, and I made more than I did here. So I'm just going to go back and do that. But what they're they're doing is they're selling themselves short. Because if you're just replacing sales income, yeah, that's that's one thing.

 

Mike Swenson 

But when you're building a rental portfolio, and you're building investments, and you're building a team behind you, those are things that you couldn't necessarily do in your past sales job. And so that's where people are selling themselves short. Because they're just looking at my sales income here, versus my sales income in real estate. Well, I made more in my past sales job, so I'll go do that. But but there's a whole world of information, a whole world of opportunity and investment in real estate, that people just don't understand that the true value of that, and even somebody who has been average in real estate for quite a few years, once you figure it out, you have an opportunity to make a ton of money and build a ton of wealth. It's just you got to hang around long enough till you figure it out. Yeah,

 

Calvin Pringles 

I don't. Have you ever read the atomic habits by James Clear?

 

Mike Swenson 

Mm hmm. Yep.

 

Calvin Pringles 

So I'm reading that now. And like, every successful person has either read that book or like, highly recommend it. Like, it's like one of the top five on their list, right? So I'm in the very beginning, like mine, probably page 50 or so. And in that book, I want to say it's like, page 20, something, they have a graph of what it takes to build consistent habits, right. So it's like, you create a new habit. And it's not they touched on this, it's not about, you know, the changes that you make, it's about the person that you want to become, right. So in atomic habits, the, the scale, it's sort of like, and this is how real estate has been explained to me, it's sort of like a hockey stick, right. So after down at the bottom of the down at the bottom, is where it kind of goes down, and then all of a sudden, it just skyrockets up.

 

Calvin Pringles 

But that's the same thing when it comes with with building and creating new habits, right? As long as you have that consistency behind it, you're just going to explode one day, and you're going to be like, you know, that's where that that that same goes or like, everybody thinks you're an overnight success, when overnight success took three years. Right? So that's, that's one thing that is super fresh in my mind, because I just started reading it.

 

Mike Swenson 

Well, and I think the the other thing, too, is, you know, they say everything is figure out double, you know, you could have 25 units for five years in a row. And you're kind of you feel like a failure, because you're like, why can I break through to that next ceiling of achievement. And the thing is, is once you once you crack that nut, and once you figure it out, whether it's it's, you know, leverage through people, whether it's leveraged through how you spend your time, like you said, focusing more on listings versus buyers, you're still trying to figure things out. But once you do, you could easily double double your your units the next year, you know, and we could be having this conversation five years from now.

 

Mike Swenson 

And you're like, Mike, I'm still at 25 units, I'm still at 25 units, well, then you figure it out, and boom, then you're at 50 units. And so I think that's what happens in real estate too, is people hit certain plateaus. And they realize once they hit that plateau, they've got to change something different in their business, whether it's its strategy, whether it's, you know, focusing on lead gen, whether it's you know, different things like that. But once you break through that plateau, now you go to another level and so, so yeah, you're you're certainly on the right track with how you're leveraging your time how you're leveraged looking to leverage yourself with other people. And you know, you'll you'll blow through that eventually.

 

Calvin Pringles 

And another thing is, you know, this year, I'm just kind of throwing all my intention towards it too, right? So think about hiring a real estate coach, right? Because I want to become a better realtor. I'm putting money towards marketing, I'm leveraging and hiring out. So I'm doing all of these things to to help build those layers on top of that foundation, where now you know, now I have the comfort to do so I can take money, you know, that I've made this year, you know, the 2x GCI versus when I was on our team and finally start investing in my business. So I'm just being super intentional this year.

 

Mike Swenson 

What about future plans with either like wholesaling or flips or investment properties? Do you have any specific plans or goals around that stuff?

 

Calvin Pringles 

Yeah, so in the Tampa market, our market has been appreciating at an average of like, 16% year over year since 29th. March of 2019. We all know what happened then. Right? Are you have a 2019 2020 COVID 2020? Yeah. COVID

 

Mike Swenson 

Yeah, so it was like a lot longer than it's been.

 

Calvin Pringles 

Yeah, it does. It does. But, um, yeah, our market has been exploding. I mean, there's like 150 people moving to Tampa per day or something, or maybe it's Florida, but you know, there's a lot of people are coming in just, you know, just large lump sum. So our market has been going crazy. So it's hard to find, you know, that recession proof long term, hold that 15% roi 12 to 15 percent ROI, like the 1% rule, right? We're making 1% ROI per month on a long term hold. So I'm primarily focused on like that middle term, Airbnb. So with a mid term Airbnb, it's kind of like a term that I just made up.

 

Calvin Pringles 

But it's not quite a 12 month lease, and it's not quite unlikely stay, it's something in between. So it's good for transient nurses, business professionals, people that are maybe looking for a new house, right, that's the great layout for me, somebody is coming to the Tampa area, they want to rent a place for three months. And, you know, in exchange for having the convenience of being able to just stay there kind of mid term, we paid double the month's rent. So I think that it just makes a lot of sense in my mind to focus on stuff like that. But I'm doing that through house hacking.

 

Mike Swenson 

Okay, great. So currently are you you have a house that you're doing it or you're looking for a house to be able to do that.

 

Calvin Pringles 

So I have a house that I currently house hack now. And then in January, once my taxes are paid, I'll have two years of paid tax returns, I'll be I'll have my approval, and then I'm going to go out and either look for a second property in which will, I'll be able to utilize for this, or I'll rent out my current primary house sec, and do this, it's just gonna depend on a lot of things. I think interest rates going to be super low, but just kind of comparing the different models up to each other with with what exactly I want to do with my with my new approval.

 

Mike Swenson 

Yeah, that's awesome, you've got a lot of great things going. It's, it's fun to see, see what you're working on. And I like that you're exposing yourself to a lot of things as well. Because, you know, some people might just stay in that sales lane, but you're realizing for for bigger picture things to be able to make more money, you have to be in some of these other lanes. So congratulations on where you're at. And, and kind of the mindset that you have, and, and the strategy that you have, I think you're knocking on a lot of great doors literally. And, and strategically for anybody that, you know, has has, you know, listen to this podcast is like, Man, I really want to, to learn more about Calvin or get a chance to connect with them. How can folks do that?

 

Calvin Pringles 

I think the easiest way, especially nowadays is just social media. And my social media handle is curated. Curated by Calvin. And I do want to touch on this because I've had this conversation as well. For those of you that are not on social media, I feel like COVID just like amplified, even more of a reason to be on social media. And the reason being is like, you know, I always give this example whenever I go to a foreign town or city or something like that, and I want to find something to eat. I'm no longer looking on Google. I'm no longer looking on Yelp, I'm going straight to Instagram. You know, I'll go on Google to type in like restaurants near me, right.

 

Calvin Pringles 

But I'm going straight to Instagram and I'm typing in, you know, that restaurant that's near me to take a look at the pictures. See what kind of people have been there. So that's I think that's the biggest shift right now is everybody's doing their research, especially as the millennials are starting to grow up and then you know, whatever that generation is behind us. But, you know, I feel like it's just, it's all social social media now. So, but yeah, if you want to reach me, my instagram handle is curated by Calvin.

 

Mike Swenson 

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Calvin, we really appreciate you sharing your story, and best of luck to you in the future.

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