Ahmed Seirafi - Building Better Through Finding Great Opportunities
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Ahmed Seirafi, principal of Andalusia Development Company, oversees all aspects of the acquisition, deposition, and development processes for his company spanning more than $100 Million in commercial assets in multi-family and retail throughout the SW United States. As a second-generation real estate investor & developer, Ahmed has successfully launched and grown his company through finding great opportunities and inefficiencies in the market that has fueled his firm's growth.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Unlock success by finding successful real estate mentors that have had success in your field vs other "social media stars" that have not.
- Learn how Ahmed gained insight through exploring properties in person vs doing online research.
- Discover untapped opportunities by driving neighborhoods, as this is a secret of Ahmed's success in finding great deal.
- Maximize returns by investing in overlooked properties by being creative and sharp on your due diligence.
- Harness the advantages of real estate development.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:03 - Introduction to Real Estate Investing
00:01:22 - Ahmed's Background and Entry into Real Estate
00:05:32 - Challenges and Choosing the Right Path
00:10:09 - Finding Value and Opportunities
00:12:38 - The Importance of Driving for Dollars and Creativity
00:16:00 - Finding Opportunities and Taking Action
00:19:48 - Choosing the Right Market and Neighborhood
00:22:51 - Scaling and Balancing Mindsets for Growth
00:25:37 - Future Plans and Opportunities
00:28:38 - Learning More from Ahmed
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Mike Swenson
All right, I will get us started. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of REL Freedom. Talking about building real estate. Leverage freedom through different opportunities in real estate. There's a lot of things you can do in real estate if you're new, just getting started, a lot of things that you can do. And as we'll talk about today, kind of knowing who to follow, knowing what's the right information is going to be really important as we talk about building better. And so that's what we're talking about today. We've got Ahmed Seirafi. He's the principal of Andalusia development company and oversees acquisition, disposition and development. You're located in California. Have over, at the time, at least of this, a hundred million in commercial assets that you're working on at any given time, multifamily and retail. And we'll dig into your story. So, Ahmed, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing with people. We're excited to hear what you have to share. So welcome.
Ahmed Seirafi
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Why don't you just talk a little bit about your background? I know for people that haven't been in real estate looking to get into real estate, they always kind of wonder, how do people get into, I I know a little bit of the answer for you, but share how you got into it.
Ahmed Seirafi
It's not one of those very exciting rags to riches. I was living on a bus bench type story, and I came up, I grew up middle class. My father actually owned a gas station, so I grew up pumping gas, but I grew up the son of an immigrant, so grew up middle class, but with a very scarcity type mindset, right. Meaning there is no extras, there's no pizza on Friday nights. There's no going out to the amusement park or anything like that. It was a very scarcity mindset. And because of growing up as a son of an immigrant, I adapted that mindset my whole life. Right. It means, like, if something needs to be done, you do it yourself. So I grew up with that. If something needs to be done, you do it yourself. So growing up pumping gas, working at my dad's gas station, I went through years and years of balancing education and working like I was working 60, 70 hours a week pumping gas, opening up at 536 in the morning, and then going all the way to four or five in the afternoon, and then going to school at night. Took me seven years to go to college.
Ahmed Seirafi
Seven years, seven and a half years to even get a diploma to graduate. And when I graduated, I was expecting to continue on working with my father, pumping gas, working in the gas station. That didn't work out and I got a job as a commercial real estate broker. I was taking real estate courses. My professor at the time introduced me to his friend. I got a job at a company called CBRE, or as it's known now as CB or CB. Richard Ellis. Back in the day, very large global commercial real estate firm, and I was a broker, spent a few years doing that. Figured out I was really good at finding opportunities, right? I kind of learned that my superpower was finding inefficiencies or gaps in the market or opportunities with clients and tenants and builders and developers and buyers and sellers, right? And kind of rolled that in, did that for a while. Did that on my own for a while after I left CB. Then after a while, I got recruited to run and operate a commercial contracting firm, right? A friend of mine had a company, did a lot of commercial contracting, building schools, colleges, universities, public buildings, things like that. I was brought in to kind of run the company, but I was also the fixer, right? I was the guy that they called in when projects were going wrong, when things were having problems. So I was the guy that came in and put things back on track. I guess I was just real good at taking those bits and pieces and putting them back in order and moving things forward. So it kind of came full circle. I was good at finding opportunities in the market. I was good at finding inefficiencies, but I was also good at putting things together and putting things back on track. So then developing and investing over the years, I took those skill sets that I had, which was opportunities, assembling things, putting things together, putting things back together, and moved that into full time real estate investment and development, where I am today developing mostly multifamily, single family, multifamily built for rent apartment complexes, townhomes, and small to medium industrial projects out here in Southern California. And my projects range from Southern California, Newport beach, all the way out to Dallas, Texas, and anywhere in between. And I've been doing that now for technically, my career is pushing 2025 years now.
Mike Swenson
Well, just even hearing you talk about your story, for those that aren't watching and listening, your shirt says, hashtag, I build better. And so even in your story, you're talking about how you've taken things, improved them, made them better, which I tend to like that too. As an operations guy, by nature, in my past, being able to take something, make it a little bit better. But yeah, let's talk about some of the challenges that people might face getting into real estate or kind of knowing which path to start or which path to choose. What can you share about that?
Ahmed Seirafi
So my path definitely started as a commercial real estate broker, working with buyers and sellers and owners and things like that, and then moving into commercial development, where we're building these facilities. So along the way, you start realizing that there is inefficiencies in the market, there is opportunities in the market, right. And how to look for those. And you can get a lot of information online, you can get a lot of information from people, but you could also get a lot of bad information out there, and they can steer you in the wrong direction.
Ahmed Seirafi
So if you're looking to come and get into real estate investing and even roll that into real estate development, is you need to find someone who's doing it, right. A lot of people will jump online or connect with a group or pay for a course with someone who is very big, very famous, got a lot of followers, got a lot of likes, and a lot of social media out there. They're not necessarily the best people to follow.
Ahmed Seirafi
You need to connect and follow and learn from people who are actually doing it on a daily basis.
Ahmed Seirafi
The people who are on social media that have a lot of social media, well, either they got a large team following them around or they just got a lot of time behind the camera.
Ahmed Seirafi
But are they actually in the field? Are they actually walking a property? Are they actually talking to a contractor? Are they actually working on problems and inefficiencies? So it's really important that you connect with someone who's actually doing it full time. This is their day job. This is their main job.
Ahmed Seirafi
They are actually doing this versus just putting out content online. So it's really important, if you're coming into this business, get with somebody, follow with somebody, connect with somebody, mentor with somebody that is doing this full time. And it doesn't mean they're doing this at scale. They could just be doing a couple projects at once or a couple of investments at once or just a couple of flips at once, right. But they are doing it day in and day out versus just putting information out there online. And they're not actually a practitioner, they're just regurgitating someone else's information.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. One of the things that we talk about on our teams in the past is this idea of under promise and over deliver. And certainly there's a challenge there. Like you said in social media, you're trying to be out there you're trying to get people's attention. But if your goal is to under promise and over deliver, it's hard to capture attention. It's hard to capture eyeballs and ears. And so people that are big, they're probably really good at saying what they need to say to attract people, but that's where you need to look behind the curtain and find out what's actually happening. And as somebody that's seen the backside of at least real estate teams, I can tell you there's a lot of real estate teams that put up a lot of production, put up a lot of numbers, but they're a mess behind the scenes, and there's a fine line there because you want to be able to continue to grow, keep your foot on the pedal without the wheels coming off versus driving like a granny, not going fast enough. So there is that balance there between speed and efficiency. But, yeah, there's a lot of people out there that don't necessarily have the track record to back up what they're sharing.
Ahmed Seirafi
There is a lot, and they talk a big game.
Ahmed Seirafi
And I'm not saying they are like this, but there is a lot. But like you said, they don't put up their numbers. They don't put up their projects. They don't put up their developments. They don't put up their investments.
Ahmed Seirafi
They just talk about it, but they don't actually show the actual property. They don't actually show an actual problem. They don't actually show them meeting with the team and working through something.
Ahmed Seirafi
So if they're not showing what they're talking about, it may be they're all fluff. It's all hot air.
Ahmed Seirafi
But if you are showing. Hey, today I'm here at my project or my investment or my property at one, two, three main street, and we are walking the property with the plumbing contractor because cast iron plumbing, it's been here a long time. We got to start making some repairs. These are some of the things we're talking about. These are some of the things we're looking at. Come with me as we walk the property. That's the kind of person you want to connect with.
Ahmed Seirafi
But if someone is just sitting in a nice, pretty studio with their name behind them and some pretty paneling, are they actually doing what they're doing?
Ahmed Seirafi
Are they actually walking the walk, or are they just talking the talk? So take your time and find the people and connect with the people that actually show you what they're doing.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Now, you mentioned a lot of people when they talk about investing in real estate, they're like, oh, you make your money on the buy side. You got to find a good deal. And you mentioned that you have a knack for finding good deals, finding good opportunities. So talk a little bit about obviously what you're doing now might be at a different scale than some of the listeners or might be a different type of opportunity, but as you're looking for value, you're looking for opportunities out there. What are some of the things that you're looking for?
Ahmed Seirafi
A lot of it comes down to inefficiencies. Like I said before.
Ahmed Seirafi
A lot of time, if there's a property on the market or someone's presenting it to you, they're giving you the basics, oh, here's the rents, here's the comps, here's this, here's that. I'm like, okay, that's great, but let's go deeper. You know what I mean? Let's go really deep. Let's go and talk about what it takes to raise the rents. Let's talk about what it takes to create value in the property. Let's go talk about if there's any inefficiencies on the remainder of the property that we can take advantage of. Is there excess land?
Ahmed Seirafi
Is there other opportunities to create more income? Right. Is it in an area that is growing and there is plans for a freeway off ramp to be opened up in the next two years? Is the city coming through and ripping up the roads in the next six months because they got to put in larger water lines and larger sewer lines to meet capacity for that neighborhood because it's growing so fast? Is there a new school being built down the street because the population is exploding.
Ahmed Seirafi
So I look beyond just the flyer or the deck or the investment sheet, right? I would say, okay, this is great information, but this is what everyone else is getting. I want to look deeper. I want to look into that neighborhood. I want to look into that community. I want to look into those demographics and see what's happening there because maybe I don't buy that investment, but I buy a piece of dirt down the street because it's going to go up in value rapidly because of all the growth in the neighborhood.
Ahmed Seirafi
So these are just a few of the things I look at when I look at an investment, right? Not just the property, but what's going on around it, right?
Mike Swenson
And one of the things I talk with investors about, especially newer investors, is the ones that make sense on paper right off the bat, they're probably gone, right? Like, whoever was the first person to see that, or maybe whether it was off market, it was presented to them first, those are probably gone. So for you, and especially in this day and age, too, where interest rates are higher than they were a little while ago, there's a problem that needs to be solved or an opportunity that hasn't yet been discovered. And so you've got to put on your creative hat. And it's hard to explain creativity unless you've kind of looked at some deals, have been around a little bit to say, like, well, you got to think creativity. But like you said, it's finding those little nuances, finding those little opportunities where the average person that's looked at it has maybe passed it by. But for you, if you dig a little bit deeper, you see something that maybe somebody else doesn't see 1000%.
Ahmed Seirafi
And let's go back to the old adage of driving for dollars. No one does that anymore. Maybe you do it and I do it because maybe we're old school or we have different kinds of work ethics, right? But everyone has gotten lazy because all they do is drive a keyboard all day long. Click, scroll, scroll, scroll.
Ahmed Seirafi
That's just the opportunity that is being presented to everyone. But do you actually get in the car and drive the market, drive the neighborhood, look for something? I can't tell you how many deals I've found by just driving myself.
Ahmed Seirafi
Because when you drive, you see all the opportunities that no one else sees because you're actually out in the market, you're actually out doing the work. You're actually driving down the street and saying, oh, that's a beater. Oh, that's an opportunity. Oh, that's something I should call on, right? But no one else is. But if you're in the car and you're driving for dollars, you're the one that's finding these opportunities. Do the work. Don't just drive a keyboard all day long. Do the work.
Mike Swenson
I was trying to come up with a scrolling for dollars or something like that instead of what's the new age? Driving for dollars. Maybe it's scrolling for know.
Ahmed Seirafi
That's true. And you can do a little bit of work like that. I do a lot of work on Google Aerial and Google Maps and stuff like that, but it does not take the place of actually driving and getting in the market and looking for things. These are where I find my opportunities. These are where I find the inefficiencies. Because if you're finding an opportunity on LoopNet or the MLS or whatever, a thousand other people are looking at it too. But if you drive down the street and you see something, you're like, you may be the only person that sees it. You're the only person that's calling on it. You're the only person that's trying to transact on it.
Ahmed Seirafi
That's why it's important to get out of your comfort zone, get in the car, get uncomfortable and put the work in. Yeah.
Mike Swenson
Well, and I will say I had a couple of multifamily listings within the last couple of months and I knew right away whether sometimes I'd obviously have agents here locally reaching out to me, but I would get numbers from area codes that I didn't recognize calling. And they're finding this stuff online. They're two, three, four or five states away. Hey, I was on zillow, or hey, I was online and I saw this property. Do you have questions? So to your point, yeah, if it's on the Internet, everybody in the world is looking at it. If you're driving and it's not currently on the MLS or currently being marketed, you are one of a much smaller pool of people that are seeing that. So let's break this down for somebody that's newer just getting started. You drive around, you see down the street this opportunity. How do you go about pursuing that type of, like, what are your next steps after that? Let's kind of walk through a couple of things for people that are newer.
Ahmed Seirafi
All right, so if you're new in the business, and let's just say there's an opportunity that comes up on the market, right? It's on the MLS. Your agent presents it to you, your broker gives it to you. You find it on, you know, whatever online system you're connected with, right? And you're like, okay, I see this, I want to go take a look at it, right? Say you're starting off in your own market, right? I'm here in southern California, you're in Minnesota. Let's just say, hey, we find an opportunity 20 minutes away. Let's go drive it. Let's go take a look at it, right? It looks good on paper. It got some good numbers. Let's go drive the property. When you go drive the property, don't be just looking at that property. Look at the one next door. Look at the one across the street. Look at the one down the street. Look at the one around the corner. Right? Because there's a lot of properties that, there's more properties not on the market than there are properties on the market, right? So you may be looking at that property, but on your journey there or your time in the neighborhood, you write down six or seven other addresses of properties that look like they're in need of an upkeep, they're in need of a renovation. They're in need of some landscaping. They are in need of some help.
Ahmed Seirafi
They're like, hey, these properties are being operated probably very inefficiently. They need some help. There's deferred maintenance. Maybe the owner is not on top of it anymore. Maybe the owner doesn't want to really deal with it anymore. Maybe the owner is struggling to keep up with it. These are opportunities that you need to start calling on.
Ahmed Seirafi
Just because the one across the street is on the MLS doesn't mean there's six or seven other properties in that neighborhood that are great opportunities, too, that no one is calling on and that you need to call. Yeah.
Mike Swenson
So are you looking? I I've talked with people in the past, yeah. Maybe you're looking for a property that's rougher. Maybe has a vacant lot next to it. Maybe there's opportunity to do multifamily development, depending on the zoning and all that. But maybe there's different things there. Where one person sees an empty lot next to a house that needs repair, another person sees, oh, here's an opportunity to put a fourplex in there or something like that, where you might be able to get some more economical efficiency out of it.
Ahmed Seirafi
Exactly. 100%. Because there are lots that are pretty wide, they're pretty deep. They got a lot of extra land. And with the changes in the laws that are happening for higher density and more units that are being needed, it's becoming a lot more easier to build on existing properties. Hey, there's a house here, but the law now allows me to put a duplex or fourplex next door behind it.
Ahmed Seirafi
So maybe you do find a house that is for sale, but you're like, oh, but it's on a 15,000 square foot lot. It's on a 10,000 square foot lot. There's a lot I can do with that.
Ahmed Seirafi
There's an opportunity there for you. Yeah. You get into the house, you renovate the house, you rent it out, you do the Brr method.
Ahmed Seirafi
But then what do you do with the rest of that dirt? You can develop it. You can divide the lot, and you can sell it off. You can do something with it. So there's more than just the house, right? There is an opportunity with the rest of the land, there's an opportunity to jv a development with somebody. There's an opportunity to get your entitlements and to sell it to someone else and make some money that way.
Ahmed Seirafi
So just because it's a piece of dirt, there's five or six different ways of making money off of that. Or if it's an old house, there's five or six different ways of making money off of that old house. You just got to dig into those opportunities a little bit deeper.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Now, you had mentioned you kind of COVID territory between California over to Texas and everywhere in between for people that are maybe looking for on a higher up, flying up to 10,000ft here. How do I choose a market I want to be a part of Versus a neighborhood I want to be a part of? What are some of the things that you're looking for? Let's just say a Dallas versus another city in Texas. What are the things that are drawing you towards the areas you're working in?
Ahmed Seirafi
So when we first got into investing in real estate, the first project that we bought was in Phoenix.
Ahmed Seirafi
So we're in Southern California. The first project we bought was in Phoenix. And the reason for that was Southern California was a little bit expensive.
Ahmed Seirafi
A lot of competition, a lot of money here.
Ahmed Seirafi
What are those surrounding markets that we can get into a bit more easily than Southern California? The barriers that entry are a little bit lower.
Ahmed Seirafi
It's a secondary market compared to southern California. So one of the things that I advise people, to me, if you're new in the real estate business and you're new in investing, you need to find a market that you can get to easily.
Ahmed Seirafi
If you're going to be hands on, if you're going to be an active versus a passive investor, you need to be able to get there within a few hours.
Ahmed Seirafi
Hey, maybe it's Saturday afternoon and there's a problem. The AC goes out, there's a water leak, there's something that happens. Either you have a team on the ground that you can call, that can get there quickly or you can get there quickly.
Ahmed Seirafi
You're within a few hours drive time, you're within a few hours of leaving your house, picking up your tools and getting there if you have to, or there's a problem with a tenant or there's a problem somewhere else on the property, it's with an easy access. So if you're looking for your first investment, make sure your first investment has somewhat of an easy access for you to get to so you can take care of whatever arises. Hands on versus. Hey, I'm in southern California, but my investment is in Charlote. That's a five hour plane ride plus a couple of hours in the hotel, in the airport, plus some travel time, plus some wait time. It may take me twelve to 24 hours to get there.
Ahmed Seirafi
That's if I leave right away. But if it's an area that is somewhat close to you, you can jump in the car and you could drive there right away. Maybe it's an hour away, maybe it's 3 hours away. It's still a lot easier to get to than being across the country, right? So if this is your first one and you're hands on and you really want to get the experience on how to run, operate and invest in real estate, make sure it's somewhat easily accessible.
Mike Swenson
To be able. I talked with somebody previously that has kids and they're like, I want a place where I can leave in the morning. Now it can be early in the morning and still get back home at night if I had to, depending on or have a meeting there, do a site visit, something like that. But yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then too, you're somebody that's grown a much larger business. Talk a little bit about maybe some lessons of scaling how to go from one to many. What had to change in how you did operations or how you approach things as you started to scale, right.
Ahmed Seirafi
In order to scale effectively and to be profitable, you need to operate with partially a scarcity mindset, but partially with an opportunistic mindset.
Ahmed Seirafi
You need to run and operate your business like it's a mom and pop, right? It's just you and yourself doing this.
Ahmed Seirafi
But as you grow and scale, you need to keep that mindset. But you also got to know that, hey, I got to put money out there to make money, right? I need to hire a management company because I am starting to get overwhelmed with trying to do it myself. Hey, maybe it's time to hire a maintenance person because I'm tired of trying to take care of this myself.
Ahmed Seirafi
So you need to operate with a bit of a scarcity mentality in terms of an old school way of operating. But you also got to understand that if I'm going to grow, I need to start spending money on maintenance, on management, on materials and stuff like that, right? So you got to kind of balance that scarcity and opportunistic mindset, because in order to really grow, you got to spend the money.
Ahmed Seirafi
But in order to grow efficiently and profitably, you got to also operate a little bit with a scarcity mindset.
Ahmed Seirafi
You got to be careful about how much you spend. You got to be careful how much money you put out there, because it's very easy for a third party person to come and say, oh, yeah, someone moved out. We're going to come paint your apartment for you and get it ready for the next tenant. But they want $1,000 to paint it. You're like, holy cow, that's a lot of money. Right. But if you operate with a little bit of that old school mindset, you're like, yeah, you know, it's a lot of money, but I know I can do it for $500. Maybe there's someone else out there that can do it.
.
Ahmed Seirafi
So you got to be able to spend the money when you need to, but you also got to be able to spend it responsibly when you need to as well.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. And I think looking at the opportunity cost of.
Ahmed Seirafi
Okay.
Mike Swenson
And the time that it takes. So it's $1,000, and I don't spend any time on it because somebody else does it versus $500 and I do it. And what else could I have done with that time? So you're balancing the time it takes you and the cost of what it actually takes you looking at both of those things together.
Ahmed Seirafi
Yeah. Like you said, find that balance, but don't overdo it.
Ahmed Seirafi
Because when you overdo it, things spiral out of control.
Ahmed Seirafi
So just have a little bit of that scarcity mindset, but know you have to be opportunistic and you got to start putting the money out there.
Mike Swenson
Yeah.
Ahmed Seirafi
Cool.
Mike Swenson
As you're looking, Ahmed, at future plans, kind of from where you're at today, where you want to go, what are some things maybe that you're thinking of on the horizon or future opportunities?
Ahmed Seirafi
Definitely looking at acquiring this year, because I feel there is going to be some opportunities hitting the market. So I need to add to my passive income portfolio the apartment complexes and the stuff that are kicking off passive income. It's not 100% passive, but they're already built, they're already operating, they're already creating cash flow. Right. So looking forward to getting into some of that, but also developing the projects that I do have. The reason why I really got into development more and more was not only am I good at it, right, I'm really good at putting things together and creating the teams like you and creating a system to bring it but development also allows you to, I hate to say this, skip competition. It allows you go straight from looking for an opportunity to having an opportunity and operating that opportunity.
Ahmed Seirafi
Because if you're looking at strictly investing, you may be dealing with ten other buyers, you may be in a bidding war for a property.
Ahmed Seirafi
But if you go straight to development, avoid all that. Now, it's a longer process and it's a lot more work, and a lot of people don't want to be a part of that, which is fine, but I like to.
Ahmed Seirafi
I want to build stuff for the future. I want to build stuff for the long term. I don't want to fight and try and compete with ten other buyers to buy a property. That's why I go straight to development, because I can go and control that process.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Well, and even for me, going from residential real estate to working with investors on smaller multifamily type stuff, a couple of years ago, when it was residential, was 50 offers on a property, I was competing with maybe five or six. Still competition, but it's still a lot less than some of my residential real estate friends that are like, I can't even get somebody to look at my offer because there's so many more. So, yeah. Kind of balancing how many other people are in that space and looking at how can you lessen the competition? Like you said, it's longer. There's a learning curve there, but you're in a space where there's less people than some of the other areas of investing.
Ahmed Seirafi
It depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it.
Ahmed Seirafi
Yeah. If there's a great opportunity that comes out of the market, I will definitely try very hard and bid for that and try and acquire that.
Ahmed Seirafi
But at the same time, I'm also going to look at the other opportunities, like, hey, I can go build something. It may take me two or three years, but I am avoiding all the competition and going straight to ownership.
Ahmed Seirafi
So you got to find that balance and what works for you. I mean, the way I do it may not work for everyone, but at the same time, keep it in mind there is an inefficiency in the market. Take advantage of it. And maybe that is getting into something that has less competition, less other people going after it. Those are the inefficiencies you need to look for. If everyone's trying to buy multifamily, maybe you need to go buy industrial or a flex space.
Ahmed Seirafi
Or maybe you need to go and flip retail buildings or something. Like look for the inefficiencies in the market and take advantage of it.
Mike Swenson
Awesome. Well, thank you, Ahmed, for coming on and sharing. For people that want to learn more about you and what you're doing, how can they do know?
Ahmed Seirafi
That is a good question. And the best way to do that is just to follow me on Instagram. I'm very active on Instagram. I have a coaching and mentorship program. I have my speaking engagements and my workshops on Instagram. So if anybody wants to learn more or be involved or just to follow me, it'd be on Instagram. And it's Ahmed builds better.
Mike Swenson
Awesome. And yeah, we'll be sure to link to that as well. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing. It was cool to hear your perspective and best of luck to you in the future. And for those of you listening as well, if you want to learn about building freedom through real estate, you can go to freedom through realestate.com. So thank you so much, Ahmed, for coming on and best of luck to you.
Ahmed Seirafi
Thank you. You too.
Mike Swenson
All right, I will hit stop.
