DJ Olojo - Helping Homeowners Successfully Navigate Foreclosure
LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE ON:
DJ Olojo is a real estate investor, Realtor, podcast host of "The Foreclosure Fix" and Managing Director of ASO Custom Homes, LLC. His mission is to help 1 Million homeowners successfully navigate foreclosure. With more than 15 years of real estate experience, including purchasing foreclosure properties on the courthouse steps, he is the go-to expert on residential foreclosure. He also is the author of the book, "The Foreclosure Fix: 12 Proven Steps To Beat The Bank, Escape Foreclosure, and Turn Your Property Into A Profitable Asset."
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Learn how DJ has been helping people master the foreclosure process to protect their home.
- Understand how taking immediate action to avoid foreclosure consequences is extremely important.
- Embrace the idea of being seasonally selfish to save your home.
- Seek support from others during tough times to prevent foreclosure.
- Explore available resources to stop foreclosure in its tracks.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:05:38 - Fix and Flips
00:09:25 - Note Investing
00:13:13 - The Power of Foreclosure Prevention
00:14:50 - The Foreclosure Process
00:18:11 - The Business Side of Foreclosure
00:20:02 - Strategies for Financial Relief
00:25:38 - Overcoming Fear and Seeking Help
00:26:24 - Seasonally Selfish Approach
00:27:27 - Taking Time for You
00:28:13 - Receiving Help
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DJ Olojo
I have had the experience to talk to thousands of homeowners who find themselves facing foreclosure. And as I told you, when I started in real estate, I started buying houses on the foreclosures courthouse steps. And we still do that till today. Right? And so I have seen what happens when people take action, do the things they need to do, and are able to avoid foreclosure. And I've also seen what happens when people, people roll over, play dead, and act like this is not happening.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the REL Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some REL Freedom together. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of REL Freedom, Real Estate leveraged Freedom, talking about how we can build time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I am your host, Mike Swenson. And if you're interested in getting started on your real estate investing journey, go check out our website, freedom through realestate.com. Freedom through real estate. It's got some articles, great resources, and obviously links to our podcast to help you get over the hump, get off the sideline, and get into building your financial freedom through real estate. So today we are going to be talking about foreclosures, a topic that we haven't talked a ton about, but we've got DJ Alojo here, and he is the expert on foreclosures and other things. And so his goal is to help 1 million homeowners successfully navigate foreclosure. You're the host of the Foreclosure Fix podcast, also an investor, and you just had a book come out called the Foreclosure Fix. And so we will talk about why you wrote that book, some of the key concepts of the book, and how you can help people avoid foreclosure. So thank you so much, DJ, for coming on the show, man.
DJ Olojo
Thank you so much for having me.
Mike Swenson
Mike, share a little bit about your background, and we'll go from there.
DJ Olojo
So I am from Detroit originally, and at the time we're recording this podcast, my lions have just lost. And so I'm a little heartbroken right now, but I don't want to put it be a Debbie downer on your podcast, but I just have to throw that out there for all the sports fans out there.
Mike Swenson
Hey, all the other teams have lost prior to that, so you just be excited you made it that far, right?
DJ Olojo
Hey, mine's a little bit more fresh, but I get it. I get it. I believe you. So, born and raised in Detroit, went to undergrad in Tennessee, and my first job out of college, I was a consultant. And I moved from Tennessee to, I grew up in Michigan, moved to Tennessee, and then I moved to Atlanta. And while in Atlanta, me and some of my buddies, this was around circa six time frame. And so me and some of my budies were like, oh man, we should consider investing in real estate. And when I say around six, it was actually later than that, it was around eight, not six. Sorry. And me and my buddies said, hey, let's consider investing in real estate. And so we all were kind of broke somewhere in their first jobs out of college, like me and the other ones were in grad school. And we found a property and we're like, cool, we're going to do this. And by that time, I had moved away and other people had moved away. And one of the people, it was five of us, and one of the people was going to get the mortgage in their name. And he was working at the time and he could have get the mortgage and we all were going to chip in and split it all five ways. And one of the guys, dad said, that's dumb. He was like, why would you get a mortgage for five? Like, they can get their own mortgages, right? And so, needless to say, that was my first attempt at real estate. But it didn't pan out. But fast forward, a few years later, I came back to Atlanta and one of my budies who was in that same group was actually buying houses at the courthouse steps. And he invited me to go to a foreclosure auction. And so I went out there and it was just a very interesting site because again, this is around maybe nine, maybe 2010 time frame at this time. And the foreclosure crisis had happened, right? And people were still not bullish on real estate again. And everybody had their perspective on if it was good, if it was bad, or whatever else may be the case. But he was bullish and he was buying houses. And so I went out there just to see what was going on. And it was like nothing I ever experienced. I saw families out there who were begging investors not to buy their houses. I saw investors buying numerous houses, and I saw attorneys just selling properties for as cheap as $1,000. And my mind was like, wow, what is going on here? This is a whole different world. And fast forward. I started participating in that on a very small level and did that for about five years, part time, just taking whatever a little additional money I had. And trying to go partner with folks to go buy a house and fast forward. Went full time about ten years ago, and since then have become a realtor, a builder, have invested in distressed mortgage notes and have done hundreds of properties. And so that's kind of the story that I am now. And today we run a business that does fix and flip, that has rentals, that also invest in mortgage notes, and we do a lot of handholding and helping folks who find themselves in tough situations that involve housing.
00:05:32 - Mike Swenson
Maybe we'll just touch on the fix and flips and some of the holdings that you have before we get into the foreclosures. But when you're looking at fix and flips, what are kind of some of your buy box criteria or maybe even, like, neighborhoods? Because I think so many people that want to get started want to start with fix and flips, and they just get stuck. So my goal is, how can I help remove barriers for people? How can I give people education? So for you, what are you looking for in some of those properties and how you're analyzing them and deciding to move forward with them?
DJ Olojo
Well, it really depends, because that's a hard question. Because I can do everything from build new to a painting, carpet, rental grade renovation. I look at houses on what the profit will be. What is my return on investment? My return on time, my return on effort. Right? But if I had to give a newbie listener, or somebody who's newer, some ideal criterion to use? When I look at houses that are under $250,000, I try to get anywhere in the neighborhood of 12% to 15% return on investment. If I look at houses above $250,000, that drops down lower to 10%. So if I am buying a house and it's worth 250, I'm looking to make a 10% to 15% return on what the purchase price is. So that means I'm looking to try to make $25,000 on that house, or $30,000 if your house is worth $500,000, I'm looking to make 50. Now, I'll say I'm looking to make, because I can go into it looking to make $50,000 and end up making negative 50,000. I mean, making significantly less. But that's the numbers that we play out to when we're looking at properties. We also target more affordable properties just because of the way we grew up in the business. As I told you, I started when things were really bad. And so in my mind when I look at real estate, I always think about what happens when things get really bad. And so I tend to try to look at properties that are under $400,000 or under $500,000 with after repair value, and I tend to skew towards even under $300,000. And keep in mind, I live in Georgia, so the price point of houses is still relatively affordable. So I know this won't work in like a California, but by being under that $350,000 price point as an ARV, what happens is that if worst case scenario, my rehab loan doesn't work out and I'm holding this property because it didn't sell, I can still turn that into a rental and either cash flow or only have to bring a little bit to the table every month, and I can weather out a storm versus if that is a half a million dollar property or a million dollar property, that's a much harder storm that you're going to be in. And so that's just been my approach, where I feel comfortable being able to scale to do twelve to 24 properties a year, because I know that worst case scenario, which has happened, I may have to take one or two back as a rental property and just rent it. And I'm okay with that.
Mike Swenson
I tell people the property kind of speaks to you in terms of what strategy you can deploy on it, right. It kind of depends on the purchase price, depends on the repairs, depends on the ARV. And some cases it might make just sense to fix it up and hold it. Some cases it does make sense to do a flip, but sometimes the numbers help speak to you, to help you decide what might be the best strategy or if it's worth passing on.
DJ Olojo
Yeah. And in today's environment with interest rates, that speaks to me, too. Right. If you can get a good interest rate, it's more likely that you can make it in a rental versus if you get a higher interest rate, you're probably going to definitely have to flip it.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, for sure. Now, let's just touch on notes for a second. How did you get into the note investing space and why do you like it?
DJ Olojo
So I got into the note investing space in a real backwards way. We were looking at a property at the foreclosure sale, and it was a second position mortgage. So, meaning that there's a first position mortgage that was actually performing and a second position mortgage that was foreclosing. So they weren't paying the second mortgage on there, and we went to go try to buy it at the courthouse steps, but unfortunately, they wanted way too much to make the deal work. So for ease of numbers. Just say the property was worth $300,000, and the first mortgage was $200,000, and the second mortgage maybe had a value of $100,000. But at the courthouse steps, they were asking for, like, $80,000 of that $100,000 value. And that just didn't work for that property just because it still needed repairs. You had agent costs and things like that. But my business partner at the time reached out to the owner of that mortgage after the foreclosure sale and said, hey, we can't offer you $80,000, but would you take, like, $30,000, a number? That made sense. And I thought it was, like a waste of time, because I was like, maybe you're going to be calling bank of America or somebody like that. It's not worth the time. And it was actually just like a small little fund. And he was able to talk to somebody. They agreed to take the offer we made him, and we bought that. And so that started a process of like, hey, not only do smaller entities own notes, I can potentially own a note. And that was a journey that took numerous years to begin to pull back the layers of the onion and find people who were talking about that little known area in the real estate investing side. But it's been quite fruitful, and it's been very interesting, and it's been the catalyst for a lot of what I talk about now when I talk about foreclosure. And more importantly than that, it's just a fun area of real estate to be in. Like, everybody wants to be the bank, you know what I mean? So it's cool to play around in that space, and there's just tons of smart people there. And one of the reasons I think it's so great if you are a real estate investor, is because, as we all know, real estate is not a passive thing. I know you can make passive income, but if you have a short term rental or long term rental or any type of property at all, you know that there is maintenance involved, there is property management involved. And although it's passive enough, it's not passive. When I look at notes, I think notes are truly the most passive part of the real estate spectrum you can get on. And so that's why I like notes.
Mike Swenson
What you're doing is you're adding a lot of different tools into your tool belt to be able to help people, help people and help yourself make money and build kind of your business and what you want to do with it. Because as somebody who used to work in residential real estate, it was kind of like, well, I can help people buy and sell their personal home, and that was kind of it. Right. Well, then I started to work with investors. Well, then, now there's another piece of the puzzle. There's another tool in the tool belt. And then you start to talk about creative financing and different ways to help people and different strategies.
DJ Olojo
Right?
00:12:22 - Mike Swenson
We talk about fix and flips and burrs and buy and holds and short term rentals and midterm rentals. There's so many things you can do in real estate, and so you're just adding more tools into your tool chest of how you can help different people and how you can create win win situations out of different stuff. Because, yeah, there's a lot you can do in real estate, and you're just finding a way to help a lot of different people.
DJ Olojo
Absolutely, man. And I think that's what it's about. I think at the core of everything I do and the other great investors like yourself out there that I see is that we want to help people. We just happen to have a lot of knowledge about real estate, and we transact by helping people solve complicated and challenging real estate problems.
Mike Swenson
So let's shift gears then and talk about foreclosures, because this is at least your bread and butter in the sense of writing a book about it and having the foreclosure fixed podcast. So what is it about foreclosure for you that makes you want to rally folks and help folks and ultimately help 1 million homeowners successfully navigate foreclosure?
DJ Olojo
It's one of those things that you can see something before it happens. Right? When I say you can see something before it happens, I think if you think about the best athletes in the world, and you think about maybe LeBron James or Michael Jordan before they were taking a game winning shot, and you ask them about the shot, they saw the shot going in the basket before they actually took the shot. Right. They already knew they were going to make it because they had done the shot a thousand times before, or maybe even 100,000 times before. And so that's the same way I feel about foreclosure. I have had the experience to talk to thousands of homeowners who find themselves facing foreclosure. And as I told you, when I started in real estate, I started buying houses on the foreclosures courthouse steps. And we still do that till today. Right. And so I have seen what happens when people take action, do the things they need to do, and are able to avoid foreclosure. And I've also seen what happens when people roll over, play dead and act like this is not happening. And so my mission and my passion just comes from people have so many options today that they didn't have before. With the way the real estate market has improved and equity has increased over the last few years, people are in a phenomenal position to maximize their financial position, but also stay in their homes. And I just think that every time I talk to somebody who loses their house, I ask them questions about what happened and they're always like, I just didn't think it was real, or oh, I just got too busy with life, or oh, I thought they were going to give me another chance. And so I got tired of hearing that story. The other thing is, I've had this conversation that I lay out in the book so many times with homeowners, and as my time becomes more and more valuable and I have less and less time to talk with people day to day, I wanted to have a document or resource where I can point people to, and that's where the podcast came up and then the book came after that. And so for me it's that I just got tired of people letting the bank do what the bank wanted to do. And I wanted people to take their action into their own hands and help dictate their own future. Because if the bank takes your house, it's not because they wanted your house, it's because you let them do it. And I think that is so important for folks to take ownership and to dictate the way in which they want to move forward. Even if the situation is difficult, it's being able to move forward on your own terms in the way you want, given the situation at hand.
Mike Swenson
So real quick for folks that maybe might be unfamiliar with the foreclosure process, can you kind of just break it down real quick of kind of what happens from I'm making my payments to I'm in foreclosure?
DJ Olojo
Well, the first thing I'll say is that it's different for every state, right? And so this is just a high level, generic kind of process map. But basically you're making your payments and for some reason you stop making your payments. So after the first time, maybe 30 days, you stop making your payments. Your servicer, that's the company that collects your payments every month, will maybe reach out or add late fees to your bill, and they may not even reach out after 30 days, but after 60 days, somebody may be reaching out. But when it gets to about 90 days, they're going to start reaching out much more aggressively and saying, hey, what's going on? And if you don't communicate and you don't respond, a couple of things can happen. The lender can just sit and be quiet and they go, just keep collecting late fees and charging interest and this can go on for many, many months or many even years sometimes, right. And they don't have to do anything or they can get really aggressive and which is the next step. And they'll send you what is called a demand letter which basically says, hey, you haven't lived up to your end of the bargain in this mortgage or agreement contract that we have, this mortgage or deed of trust that we have. And now I am demanding that you pay me what you owe me. And then you have two options there. Either you pay them back what is owed, which is a reinstatement, or they'll move forward with the foreclosure process. And then the foreclosure process is different in every state, but that could be a judicial process which goes through the court system, or it can be a non judicial process which doesn't go through the court system. And it's more just about advertising that this house may be for sale. So in some states your house can go from you not making your payment and that 90 day mark hitting to being on the foreclosure steps in basically eight weeks, while some places it may be a couple of years. And so that's the foreclosure process in a nutshell.
Mike Swenson
And let's remind people, the bank never says thank you when you make your payment consistently, right? It's when I don't make my payment for 30 days that they then have a problem. But you can make your payment for five years and they never say thank you. Why is that?
DJ Olojo
Well, I think you have to also understand this is a business contract, right? So the bank gave you the money when you initially purchased the property. And you didn't say thank you to the bank when they gave you the money. Right.
Mike Swenson
Maybe you wrote a thank you card to them, hey, big National bank, thank you so much for this mortgage. I really appreciate it.
DJ Olojo
You said thank you to your lender and gave them some commission. You gave thank you to your realtor, maybe even gave them a gift. Right. But the bank didn't say get a thank you. And so at the end of the day, everybody has to realize this is not personal, this is business. And the bank is looking at you as dollar signs. And the bank doesn't want your house. They want your money like plain and simple. And I use this often because a lot of people don't know about it. But if you ever looked at an amortization table and you look at how much interest you are paying on the front part of your loan, it is obscene. And most people only keep their mortgages for about seven years. And so if you keep your mortgage for seven years, you have paid back a tremendous amount of interest and very little principal. And so the bank understands this math and that is the math in which they use to make a billion trillion dollar industry, right? And so I think it's just so important that people realize it's a business transaction and for the bank it's all about the money. And that may sound callous, that may sound crass, but at the end of the day that's what it is. And you have to understand that when you go try to play the game of chicken with them.
Mike Swenson
So what are some things that you teach people of, hey, things are starting to get kind of tight around here. Maybe I can't pay all of my bills, whether it's for my mortgage, whether it's for utilities, whether it's car. How do you help people start to go through that process to kind of decide what are we going to do? Because to your point, you said if they take your house, it's because you let them, right. There's a choice throughout this process. So kind of walk through those early stages of how you can help people and help them strategize what they can do.
DJ Olojo
Well, the first thing is there needs to be an awareness, right? You can't look at bills mounting and just live in a panacea and say, oh, I'm going to get a big bag of money tomorrow and this is going to take care of everything or the government's going to step in. If you're waiting on the government, you're going to be waiting a long time, right? And so I think the first thing is the realization of like things are getting out of control in my financial future. And so realizing that you then have to say what things can I do to regain control? And if it's about foreclosure, there are things that you need to kind of consider. One is, is this something that is going to be a long term issue or is this just a short term issue? For example, I was sick, now that now I'm well again, right? Or in some cases I got a divorce, but now I'm back on my feet or I lost my job and now I have a new job and so is it just a short term blip, right? Or is this something that's going to be systemic where I just can't afford this place I'm living in, or it's just too expensive with all the cash outlays that I have every month? And so understanding that, then the next thing is communicating that to your servicer and saying, hey, this is what's going on in my life. Is there something I can do to get some relief? And that could be a payment that is deferred where they say, don't pay your payment for the next couple of months. We'll defer that and put it on the back end of your loan. So maybe you get some relief if you're sick to be able to get well again, or if you got a new job for your new checks to start coming in. Or it may be a situation where they modify your loan and say, yes, when you apply for this loan, you were able to afford x amount, but due to this, we're going to modify your loan and maybe change your amortization from a 30 year amortization to a 40 year amortization, or we're going to maybe make it so you have a balloon payment after 15 years to back your loan. There's so many different creative strategies, but it all involves communication. And so you have to communicate with your servicer to let them know what's going on and see what options they have available.
Mike Swenson
What does that look like? Because I think people listening to this are probably like, what? The bank is going to be willing to work with me at that point.
DJ Olojo
Yeah, it looks like this. It looks like you getting on the phone, calling that 1800 number right on your loan statements and saying, hey, I need to speak with the representatives. And depending on your situation, depending on the servicer, they may escalate your situation to the loss mitigation department or the workout department or whatever else. But it's saying, hey, I'm having financial trouble and I need some relief. What options do you have available? And they'll let you know what their programs are. And that's the process. That's where it starts. But I say that's where it starts because that's not where it finishes. And after that, you need to also be communicating with other folks around you who, you know, like and trust. That can help bring insight. So if you are an adult and you're elderly, you have kids and your kids are of age, you need to communicate with them and say, hey, this is what I'm going through. If you got the loan from a lender, you may want to reach back out to them and say, hey, I'm having some financial troubles, or what other loan products do you have? And I understand no one wants anybody in their business like no one wants anybody to think that they don't have everything together. But when you are facing foreclosure, you need to let down your pride and your ego and go get help. And the thing is that if you don't get help, trust me, everybody knows about foreclosure because foreclosure is public. So this is not anything that's going to be off the record once it gets to that stage and they file suit. And so it's just very important that you go and you ask professionals for help. In our book called a Foreclosure Fix, we outline twelve strategies that you can take in order to kind of deal with foreclosure. And a lot of those strategies involve getting help from competent people around you. And we have a community at the foreclosure fix where we have podcasts and resources and things like that to help people along the way. But you can also feel free to ask us a question. HUD has numerous counselors that are free, that you can reach out to a HUD counselor in your area. You can always reach out to real estate agents. They're always looking to help folks because they see if you're going to sell, they want to be right in line or they're there to help you. And they can tell you what the market value of your property is. And so it's so important that you use the resources that are out there, many of which are free. And I know some people are so nervous because I don't have money to pay my bills, let alone pay a professional. I guarantee you that all the professionals paying money to market on the radio and on billboards and in newspaper ads and things like that, they want you calling them, right. And so if you have an issue, most professionals out there will take five and ten minutes to give you their advice and not charge you anything for it. Because for us, it's just like spitting off your order at a restaurant. It's not a difficult thing. It's something you do all the time, all day, every day. But for you it's something new and scary. And so don't let that fear stop you from asking for help.
Mike Swenson
As a real estate agent, yeah, we've encountered that. I've had clients with that. And so, like we said, it's just if you've got problems, if I'm sick, I'm going to go to the doctor. If I've got financial problems, I've got to find somebody to help. And if it involves my home, talking with an agent or talking with somebody to get some advice, because, yeah, we've helped clients who have been in those shoes before navigate that process to, yeah, maybe where you don't have to sell. And if an agent doesn't have to sell your house, if they're a good agent, they're okay helping you first as a person. Right. We don't want to have to sell your house. If it comes down to it, you're in financial pain like that. So that's where. Yeah, reaching out and having those resources is awesome. Any other advice that you have for people, obviously short of go get your book and read your book, but what other advice would you have for people that are kind of going through this process?
DJ Olojo
Well, I've coined a term called seasonally selfish. Right. And that term, being seasonally selfish, is one of the things that I tell everybody facing foreclosure to do. Right. And being seasonally selfish means that you are going to take time for yourself to do what's most important for you. What I find in my work is that a lot of folks who are facing foreclosure are in situations where they are the ones used to helping everybody else. They're the ones who people call when they have a problem. They're the ones who everybody leans on. They're the ones who are giving out money to folks who have not paid it back and things like that. And so being seasonally selfish is you taking time out and taking a step back to say, I need to focus on my problem at hand. And that problem for you may be the foreclosure situation, it may be a health situation, it may be something else. It may be the loss of a loved one that you're still grieving. But it's absolutely okay and acceptable to take a step back and spend time on you. And it doesn't have to be for the rest of your life. It doesn't have to be for many, many years. It could be for days, it could be for weeks, it could be for months. But you need to take the time that you need, and you don't have to apologize for it. You don't have to give excuses. It's like I'm taking time for me. And those people who love you will respect it. And those who don't love you and don't appreciate your time, they may not respect it, but it doesn't matter what they think, right? And so being seasonally selfish is one of those things that I implore everyone who is facing foreclosure to do. It's taking time to deal with the most important things to you and not worrying about what everyone else thinks in that season. Awesome.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, that's fantastic advice for people because you're the type of person that likes to help others, but you need the help and so it's okay to receive help in those times of need. So awesome. DJ, well, thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing your story a little bit more about you and obviously kind of your specialty in the foreclosure space. So if people want to reach out to you, how can they do so?
DJ Olojo
Well, if you want to reach out to me, you can definitely check out our website at ww dot the foreclosurefix.com or you can check me out on all social media djologio and if you ever need anything, feel free to send us an email at help at the foreclosurefix.com. Awesome.
Mike Swenson
Thank you so much, DJ, for coming on and sharing with our audience. We appreciate it.
DJ Olojo
Thank you so much. And if you all have not subscribed to the REL Freedom podcast, you all need to do so right now. Leave this man a review, a five star review and write a comment because it is so hard to be a podcaster out here. So please, please leave this man a review, write a comment and check out the podcast. He's doing great work.
