Joel Friedland - Debt Free Commercial Investing
Joel Friedland is a 43+ year real estate investing veteran specializing in single-tenant industrial properties in the Chicago area, with a track record of acquiring 104 buildings valued at over $300 million for more than 300 investors. Known for his ultra-conservative, debt-free syndications and long-term hold strategy, Joel brings a uniquely risk-averse mindset shaped by weathering four economic downturns. Many of his deals involve 1031 exchanges and tenants-in-common structures, making him a go-to expert in tax-efficient industrial investing. With decades of experience and a trove of entertaining stories—from cold-calling sellers to knocking on tenants’ doors—Joel delivers real-world insights that resonate with both new and seasoned investors.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover how investing in industrial real estate can provide a steady, low-risk income stream that strengthens your portfolio.
- Learn proven strategies to build a debt-free real estate portfolio that protects your investments during uncertain times.
- Master the art of building long-term tenant relationships in industrial spaces to boost retention and minimize vacancy.
- Navigate financial crises with confidence by understanding key tactics that keep your real estate investments resilient.
- Unlock the unique advantages of investing in Chicago’s industrial properties to enhance your portfolio’s stability and growth.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Overcoming Debt and Mental Health Challenges in Real Estate
00:02:00 - Joel Friedland’s Early Real Estate Journey and Syndication Start
00:09:00 - Industrial Real Estate Benefits and Tenant Loyalty Explained
00:12:00 - Managing Single Tenant Industrial Buildings and Vacancy Risks
00:21:13 - Passive Industrial Real Estate Investment with Expert Management
00:28:41 - Connecting with Industrial Real Estate Investors and Resources
00:29:27 - Building Long-Term Investor Relationships
00:30:19 - Closing Remarks and Continued Property Acquisition
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Full Transcript Here:
Joel Friedland
I had seven banks, I owed $70 million in personal guarantees with a partner and a brother. We all were in trouble together and I came out of it with a new way of looking at mental health and risk and that was let's do deals with a maximum 30% loan to value ratio or zero debt whatsoever. Totally debt free deals.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the Real Freedom show where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of reality Real Freedom, Real Estate Leverage Freedom where we talk about different ways that people pursue time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host Mike Swenson. If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, check out our website freedom through realestate.com. we've got lots of great stories and videos for people to share and it's all built around the goal of finding something that you're going to connect with as a listener. A certain story, a certain background, you know, maybe hearing something a different way to be able to go and chase and pursue your dreams inside of the real estate space. And so that's why we exist and so we love telling good stories. And we've got another awesome story for you today. So today we have Joel Friedland and he is based out of Chicago, 40 plus years in real estate focusing on single tenant industrial buildings and it's all about Chicago. And so we're going to talk about, you know, kind of selecting markets and why and your background but you also do this with syndication, with other investors and so excited to hear you share all about 40 plus years in real estate in the span of about 25 minutes. And so we'll cover everything from soup to nuts in 20 in that time. So talk fast. But welcome Joel. We're excited to have you.
Joel Friedland
Thanks Mike.
Mike Swenson
So yeah, tell us a little bit kind of how you got started maybe why real estate, how you got into real estate and we'll just take the conversation from there.
Joel Friedland
Yeah, I am a, a guy that grew up in suburbs of Chicago in and place called Highland park. And we lived on a street where there were 70 homes. And when I was a kid my, my parents both went back to school and became therapists. So they both were not working in a, in a career that was like a long term thing. They both restarted. So financially it was a bit of a struggle while they were doing their thing in grad school and I, at the age of 14 said to them, I need some things and I want to have some security. Security as a 14 year old. So I started a lawn business and I went up and down the street cold, calling my neighbors, each of the husbands and wives or a divorced wife or the widows. And in one weekend, I got 60 lawns signed up to cut every week. And not just on my street, but I went to the neighboring streets also. And I'm cutting these lawns and I'm sweating and smoke's coming out of the back of the lawnmower, and I'm watching as I'm in the front yard cutting the lawn of someone's house. There's a for sale sign on the lawn. And I looked at the for sale sign and I looked at the house, and all of a sudden someone drives up and they get out of their car in the driveway and they go into the house and someone else drives up who's meeting them, obviously. And it must have been a real estate agent showing the house to someone who might be a buyer. And I'm thinking to myself, that's real estate. And I'm cutting lawns. I should be in real estate. It looks so much easier. What do you do? You go from your car, which I couldn't drive yet I was 14. You go from your car to the front door and you say hello to people and you smile and you show them the place, and then you make a deal and you make a commission. So I was taken with real estate at age 14, and I never really did anything about it until I graduated from the University of Michigan. And I was introduced to a family, not my family in Chicago. Last name was Podolsky, Milton Podolsky and his two sons and daughter. And they had an industrial real estate empire. They had 80 buildings, 6 million square feet worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And they hired me to be a leasing agent. And I was their leasing agent until it occurred to me that what they were doing was syndicating industrial buildings by bringing in investors, owning them, collecting fees for management and collecting cash, net operating income to distribute to themselves and to their. To their investors. And I said, this is for me. So I went to Steve Podowski, the son, and I said, steven, I need to meet with you and your dad. I want to be a syndicator just like you. And the Podowskis said, we'll teach you how to do it. And so I was working for them and went out and raised money. They raised money and we bought buildings. You want to hear something crazy, Mike Swenson? We Bought a building early on on Mike Swenson, of course.
Mike Swenson
The best street in USA, right?
Joel Friedland
How do you like that?
Mike Swenson
Yeah.
Joel Friedland
16,000 square foot building. And we leased it to a company called Flavors of North America. And they stored flavorings in boxes. That's what they did in our building. They were a warehouser and they manufactured the products right down the street in St. Charles. So I started syndicating and then started borrowing money. I had about 200 investors that I had met various ways, mostly referrals from other investors. And in 2008, it got ugly, man. The great financial crisis hit. I had 50 buildings and 10 of them had trouble. Tenants who couldn't pay the rent, leases that came up and they left because they didn't need the building anymore. And I just went into a tailspin emotionally. I didn't know if I was going to survive it, honestly. I didn't know if I was going to live through it. I didn't know how I was going to live through it. I didn't know what was on the other side. And I got some help. I went to see a good doctor who prescribes medications for people who are in depressions, which I was in one. And I went to meditation class with a friend of mine and I worked my butt off and I prevented the portfolio from folding and going into bankruptcy by working really hard. But it made me aware of what killed me during that time, which was too much debt. I had seven banks. I owed $70 million in personal guarantees with a partner and a brother. We all were in trouble together. And I came out of it with a new way of looking at mental health and risk. And that was let's do deals with a maximum 30% loan to value ratio or zero debt whatsoever. Totally debt free deals. And that's what I've been doing since. I've been helping investors to come up with checks of 25,000, 50,000, 100, 250,000 in all cash deals. One case, we just did one, it was 1,500,000 and we had a $25,000 minimum. So we had a lot of investors. We had about 40 investors. And we did another one that was 13 million and we borrowed 4 million, which made me very nervous. But we had three buildings with a company that makes fruit juice concentrate in two of them and their competitor who makes fruit juice concentrate in the third one. And the rent's about a million dollars a year. And it covers our debt, which is about $250,000 a year. So it leaves us with about 750,000 to distribute and the return to the investors is about a 7% cash on cash return. We distribute quarterly. And that's my, that's my business. That's what I do.
Mike Swenson
That's awesome. And I mean, so much for us to dig into. I think for people that listen to this show, realizing that, you know, you, for one, you've been in this through multiple cycles, seen the up, seen the downs, and adjusted your business in a way that provides a healthy lifestyle. And I think that's something we probably don't talk about enough on this show is it's great to have the financial piece, but that can be taken away. And none of this works if your mental health or physical health is compromised in a significant way. And so you were able to adjust your business in a way that I'm assuming now is, is much better for you. I'm, I'm assuming the blood pressure's a little bit lower than it was when you had all the debt and you're able to sleep at night a little bit better and still provide good returns. Cause I know for a lot of people in real estate, I mean obviously you're, you're doing this for the financial returns or the tax benef, whatever it might be, but to still be able to provide the returns that you want in a product that you love, which is, which is industrial.
Joel Friedland
Industrial is great. Industrial is great for a bunch of reasons. One of the reasons that I think you, you might not think of right off the top of your head is that tenants who are manufacturers, and a lot of our tenants are manufacturers, they make things in the buildings. We have a 50,000 square foot space that's leased to a company that makes protein bars. We have a 20,000 foot space and they make products that are seen and used in children's museums. If you set up a business in an industrial building and you spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars on equipment, putting it in place, training your employees. Moving is not a rational thing to do. They don't leave. So we have buildings where tenants have been there for 30 years, 20 years. And in industrial, what's happened is the, the fact that inflation is, is a thing. A lot of industrial owners have decided that they have to have annual escalations in the rent built into the lease. So a tenant might sign a five year lease and it might be, call it $100,000 in rent the first year and then it's 103 the second year and 106 the third year. We try to keep up with inflation. But we also love that tenants stick around. They're called sticky tenants when they stick around and we get to know them really well. One of the problems, I don't know if you see this in multifamily, but when you become friendly in a relationship with the tenant, it's really hard to jack the rent up because you have to go to them and say, hey, John, I know you're my friend, but rents have gone up the last couple years. And I know you're paying 100,000 a year and your lease is coming up, and you probably think you should pay 103,000 next year, but the rents have gone up 40%. I need you to pay $140,000. Well, that doesn't go over well. And that's what's happening with us right now. Industrial's been hot because the Internet's been a big focus. Industrial companies distribute using online services, and manufacturers make a lot of products. And especially now with what's happening with tariffs, it's possible they'll be making more here than ever. And so companies, they love being in one location for a really long time. And when I tell them the rent's going way up, it hurts their mental health. I mean, how do I afford 140,000 a year in a business that's only making, let's say, half a million a year? It's almost 10% of my net take home pay. And little companies, maybe they make a half a million, maybe they make a million. We have big companies, we have the US Postal Service, believe it or not. They pay their rent slowly and are late all the time, which is hard to believe.
Mike Swenson
No, that doesn't sound like something that you'd expect from them.
Joel Friedland
It's a bureaucracy. They're a little disorganized. We have our local soccer team as a tenant in one of our buildings. They're great. It's called the Chicago Fire. The biggest problem with industrial is that single tenant buildings, which are my focus, are either 100% occupied or 100% vacant. And if they're vacant and there's no money coming in, expenses are going out. So we try to minimize vacancy as much as we can. And that's the secret to our business, is to keep the buildings leased. But if we can't lease them, the market for the sale of industrial buildings of the size we own, which are 20, 30,000 square feet, it is so tight on supply that if I put a building of 20,000ft on the market for sale, I'll get seven to 10 offers within three days. That's really the big benefit of single tenant buildings is we don't sell for cap rates. We sell to neighbors who are manufacturers where the building is a tool for their business.
Mike Swenson
And especially in a place like Chicago, it's a very, very large city and there's a ton of demand there. And location is important. Right. I mean, if you want to be where you want to be and you don't really want to be too far down the road because there's a lot of traffic and other things. And if you think about, you know, shipping and manufacturing, obviously location is important. And so, you know, there's a limited amount of. There's not a lot of room to be able to, you know, build a bunch of new industrial buildings as well. Because, you guys, you know, Chicago's been around for a long time and they've developed a lot of the land already.
Joel Friedland
Yeah. In our little niche, which is smaller industrial buildings that are close to o' Hare Airport or close to or in the city, there is no land. And the cost of building a new building, including the land for 25,000 foot building, is $250 a square foot. So that's six and a quarter million. If we buy a building for $100 a square foot and we sell it for $150 a square foot, we can make a $50 a foot profit. And they're still saving $100 over what it would be if they built a new one, if there was any land. But there is no land because industrial parks have filled up over the last 50 years and there's just nothing left for anybody to build on. In most places that are close in, we call close in locations in fill. So we're in the infill, small single tenant industrial building business. And the key for us is keeping the building leased and starting out our cash flow around 7 or 8% and then building it up over a period of years. The building on Swenson that we have, just to go back to your name, that 16,000 square foot building, we bought it for a million dollars and today it's worth about 1,500,000. And the.
Mike Swenson
I would have thought a little more, but you know, I guess more marketable to me than the general public. But sure, I'm just kidding.
Joel Friedland
We'll give it to you for 1,400,000.
Mike Swenson
Okay, sounds good.
Joel Friedland
Okay. Because you're, because you're Swenson. Yep. The rent that we're getting on that is now a lot higher than when we bought it. So the cash on cash Return is up to about 12.5%. So who wants to sell it? My investors want to keep it. Sometimes I call investors and I say, hey, how would you like to sell your syndication interest to somebody else? I have someone that would like to get into a deal with me and if you'd like to sell, I can't shake them loose. I can't get rid of investors even if I try. They want to stay in because when they sell, they have to pay taxes and then they have to figure out where they're going to put their money, where they're going to make a 12 and a half percent return. The answer is nowhere. So people stick with me for a really, really long time.
Mike Swenson
Well, that's where my next question was going to be is, let's say I'm an investor and I've got 25,000 or $50,000. You know, I'm looking at wanting to invest in real estate, maybe multifamily, maybe industrial, maybe retail, whatever it might be. What have you seen or kind of, what are the key talking points for you in terms of why industrial? Obviously you've kind of talked about a little bit here, but why industrial? Why you're str strategy, right, with low to no debt. And then, you know, it sounds like for you it's just hold and see those returns rise and, and hang on to it over time versus consistently kind of flipping and doing a 1031 into something else. But yeah, what does that conversation look like with an investor who maybe is newer to investing in real estate or newer to investing in industrial?
Joel Friedland
Yeah, the answer is there's not a lot that can go wrong because we buy buildings that have major components. The roof, the H Vac system and the parking lot are the main components. If we buy a building, we're buying one right now. The roof's two years old. It'll last 20 more years. The parking lot's great and the H Vac is in good shape. So we're buying this building for 3.6 million and there's nothing we have to do to it. And managing it is a cinch because all we do is we collect the rent and we make sure that the tenant is cutting the lawn and we make sure that the tenant in the wintertime is plowing the snow and that they're maintaining the driveway. We make sure that they have a quarterly H Vac maintenance contract with a qualified H Vac contractor. But the management of industrials, sort of easy. And the same 3.6 million might buy you a 30 unit multifamily complex. Now you got 30 problems, you got 30 tenants. Everybody's got bathrooms, everybody's got kitchens. Things go wrong, people don't get along in the parking lot, people leave, they don't pay their rent. Industrial, there are very few companies that don't pay the rent because they've been around a long time and they make money and their building is really important to them. So one of the things that I think attracts people the most are these long term stay sticky tenants. Increasing rents every year without having to go retenant. Virtually no build out, not having to spend any money to fix it up. And what I really, what I like the best is every kind of business that you can imagine is in our buildings. And it's so fascinating to see what people make, what they manufacture. I mean everything your microphone is manufactured in an industrial building. Everything on the shelves behind you is made in. A lot of that stuff's plastic. In a plastics factory, everything, you name it. Wilson sporting goods, you know, balls, tennis rackets, golf clubs. They're our neighbor. They have an industrial building, they've been in it since 1967. They're the neighbor of one of our other buildings. They're going nowhere. And the return on that deal at this point from when the people first went into it is like 120% a year. It's outrageous because they built the building from scratch back in the 60s and it's gone up in value about six fold and the rents have gone up and it's just a great tenant long term hold. It's like a little piggy bank of cash flow. And industrial has, that's its nature. It's long term cash flow with increases and very little management.
Mike Swenson
Are you looking to get started or scale in real estate investing but don't know your next step? Are you overwhelmed thinking about finding, finding deals, analyzing deals, doing due diligence and managing properties on top of it? Go ahead and push the easy button and invest with us. Real estate investing is what we do full time. We've done dozens of deals with hundreds of doors. We have the knowledge and experience to hand pick the best deals that most investors can't find. We've got large off market deals all the time where you can hopefully find returns and economies of scale that you just can't find on your own. The best thing is it's off 100% passive to you for less capital than you put down trying to acquire a property on your own. Don't let this year go by where you don't make the Leap add to your portfolio, or you just sit in analysis by paralysis. To find out more, visit freedomthroughrealestate.com and click on Invest. You can book a call and learn more there. So get to scaling your portfolio now with us by your side. Now talk about your process for, you know, growing your portfolio and identifying, you know, new opportunities. Because, like we talked about, there's not a lot of new buildings being built. Obviously, you've been in the business for a long time. You've established a lot of great relationships with people. So as you guys are looking to continue to grow your portfolio, what's your approach with finding new opportunities in the market?
Joel Friedland
It's really, really hard. It's not easy at all because people that own these buildings have generational wealth and they don't need to sell. Most of the owners that we buy from are the families whose grandfathers started the business and now the kids and the grandkids run the business. Or they sold it to a private equity group and that group pays rent to them for the building that grandpa originally bought. It's really hard to find. So there's 300 industrial brokers in Chicago. There's a group called the Society of Industrial and Office Realtors. It's an international organization, and I belong to it. I've been in it for 30 years. And there are people in Minnesota who belong to it. There are people everywhere. And these are really highly experienced industrial real estate brokers. So I advertise to them that I'm a buyer and I buy all cash and I close quickly and they bring me deals to look at. But this is going to really shock the living daylights out of anyone who hasn't heard of this. I personally, at age 66, and my four interns this summer and two more people who work in our company, literally go door to door canvassing, talking to owners, asking them if they'll sell. We make phone calls to follow up to owners to see if they'll sell. And the building we're buying for 3.6 million right now in the town of Wood Dale is occupied by a company that's in the audio visual business. They do setups of the audio and the visual for events. So they have a warehouse full of that stuff. And they're in Las Vegas and they're in Nashville and they're in Chicago in Wood Dale. And the building that we're buying, we're buying it from the owner of the company who's going to lease it back from us. And then eventually he's going to move out and put everything in Las Vegas and consolidate. But in the meantime, he's our tenant when we buy the building. And it's a really cool deal. But guess how we found it. Logan, 23 years old, stopped in, called him, stopped in, called him and finally said, logan, all right already, I'll talk to you. And that's how Logan opened the conversation and opened the door and got the building for us. And Mario, the owner, I think, is glad that he's found someone to buy it so that when he leaves, he doesn't have to own it anymore and worry about selling it in the future. And we're starting out with a 7 1/2% return based on his rent. And it's a beautiful building. It's got the most gorgeous offices. It looks like a downtown law firm type of office with glass fronts for all the offices and beautiful woodwork. He did a great job. And we're getting the building generationally because he's owned it for 23 years.
Mike Swenson
But imagine, yeah, if it's a lot of companies, that it's in the family.
Joel Friedland
Yeah.
Mike Swenson
You walk into the building, you're talking to the owners or the relatives of the owners, and so you don't have to go too far to find out who's the decision maker. But then it's building the relationship.
Joel Friedland
I get a lot of this because I'm older and they don't want to be disrespectful to me. But some of the younger guys go in and they ask for the owner of the company, and the person who's greeting them at the door says, it says, no solicitors on the door. Get out of here.
Mike Swenson
Mm.
Joel Friedland
Route. Get out. Go. Go away. Go. And if we try to talk to the receptionist at the front door, her job is to protect the owner from ever having to talk to anybody. So she'll say, well, we're not selling the building. And then I'll say, how do you know? Because I know. Go away. So there's a lot of rejection in being a buyer with us. A lot of rejection.
Mike Swenson
I was going to say I could just envision you guys like you see in those romance movies where you, like, write a message on tag board and you play, like, a love song or, you know, you're knocking at the bedroom window to get their attention. And so you just go find where the owner's office is, because it's going to be a. It's going to be a window view, right? It's going to be the best view. And you just hold here's here's my offer for you, Mr. Owner, and try to get their attention that way.
Joel Friedland
So I'll tell you what I do. There's a really interesting trick. So the oldest trick in the book. I wait till after 5 o' clock when everybody else goes home and the owner, who's a workaholic, is still sitting in that corner office with the two windows, the two walls, and I go in the front door if it's open. Or I'll go in the open side door in the warehouse and I'll figure out how to get to the office from the warehouse. And I'll walk into the office and I usually go in like this. I go, hi. You know, it's like very respectful. I'm not shooting you. I'm not here to rob you. But I did come in the back door. And I'm here because I own some buildings in the neighborhood and I'm wondering if you would consider selling this building. And they go, oh, oh, come in. We had the one guy called the police on us and he said, I'm calling the police. And I was with a young guy teaching him how to go door to door, cold calling. I said, why don't you call the police? We'll just wait. So the guy calls the police and. And Steve and I are standing there in this guy's office and the police come and the officer walks in and he says, who called me? And the owner of the company says, I did. These people are trespassing. They came in without being invited and I want them out of here. And the officer looked at me and he said, are you dangerous? I said, I'm not dangerous. He said to the owner of the company said, sir, you can ask them to leave. This is not a police matter. If you want to ask them to leave, they should leave. But why did you call the police? He said, I don't know. I just thought it was a good idea. So we waited for the police, greeted the police officer, and then we left. But you need stories like that because that's what happens.
Mike Swenson
Well, I'm sure you have no shortage of other stories to share, but it's been fun to hear your take on things. Obviously talking about industrial, the benefits of it, and for people looking for investment opportunities. You know, what I love about working with investors is everybody has different criteria of what they're looking for. Something that's a fit for them, something that they feel comfortable and confident in investing in. And obviously you've built a great database of people that want to pour money into Industrial properties in the Chicago area. How do people, people get a hold of you or reach out to you if they want to learn more about what you're doing?
Joel Friedland
We have a website, it's Brit properties b r I t with1t brities.com and my investors are very inquisitive. They ask a lot of questions. They don't just go in, they want to know all the details and I share the details with them. And a lot of the details are on the website as to how we do it.
Mike Swenson
Well, and I know too, you know, one of the things that gets missed when you're working with investors is these are long term relationships. Right. This isn't, you know, a bank. I guess you could consider a long term relationship relationship because they've got the mortgage. But, you know, these are people that you're spending 5, 10, 20, 30 years with and this is their money that you're being a steward of. And so this isn't like, hey, I'm just trying to swindle somebody to get their money to put in a deal. No, because you've got to report to them until as long as you own that deal on how it's going. So these are important relationships to build with people.
Joel Friedland
We do a lot of lunches, a lot of dinners. I travel to Florida in the winter and I've got a bunch of investors who are there and we get together for dinner. Sometimes I bring groups of investors together who don't know each other. That's kind of fun. And we go to a steak place or a fish place and we all sit around a big table and everyone gets to know each other. Yeah, it's a relationship business, 100%.
Mike Swenson
Well, thank you so much, Joel, for coming on, sharing your story. For people interested, make sure you reach out. And best of luck, Joel, as you continue to hunt down and find more properties.
