Morgan Anderson - Finding Solutions for Tax Debt Issues
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Morgan Anderson is the founder & CEO of Golden Lion Tax Solutions. She is also the author of the book "Tax Debt Rule #1: There's Always A Solution." In almost 25 years, she has seen it all in solving past-due taxes owed to the IRS. Oftentimes her clients come to her scared, feeling hopeless, and don't know where to find answers. Her goal is to reach each and every taxpayer with a past-due tax debt to give them the confidence to find a solution.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover effective tax strategies for real estate investing to maximize profits and minimize tax liabilities.
- Learn essential tips for entrepreneurs on effectively managing tax debt and avoiding costly pitfalls.
- Master best practices for making estimated tax payments to stay compliant and minimize penalties.
- Explore lucrative opportunities in tax lien properties and how to invest wisely in this niche market.
- Find out how hiring a tax debt resolution professional can help alleviate financial stress and pave the way to financial stability.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - The Impact of Multiple Business Ventures on Taxes
00:01:17 - Importance of Tax Management for Business Owners
00:03:11 - Common Reasons for Tax Delinquency
00:08:13 - Steps to Address Tax Debt
00:12:11 - Proactive Approach to Tax Notices
00:14:45 - Finding Reputable Tax Debt Resolution Professionals
00:18:00 - Structuring Payments with Tax Debt Resolution Companies
00:20:07 - State-Level Considerations for Tax Debt Resolution
00:24:32 - Handling Tax Liens on Property
00:26:36 - Reaching Out to Morgan Anderson for Assistance
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Morgan Anderson
When you have so many irons in the fire, it's very easy for one event to cause a ripple effect and have an impact on your cash flow, have an impact on your ability to make your estimated tax payments, and then have an ability on you to have all your records accessible before the filing deadline.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the REL Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities and real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some REL Freedom together. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of REL Freedom, real estate Leverage Freedom, where we talk about building time and financial freedom through different opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, check out our website, freedomthroughrealestate.com. We have great articles and videos and information for you to be able to help decide your path or decide your next steps and what you want to do. For today's episode, we are going to be talking about a topic that is extremely important as you are a business owner, as you continue to grow, and that is taxes. And so today we've got Morgan Anderson here. She is the founder and CEO of Golden Lion Tax Solutions, also author of the book tax Debt Rule number one. There's always a solution. We're going to talk more about that. But if you want to grow as a business owner, grow as an entrepreneur, you have to have control of your taxes. And sometimes that falls by the wayside. I've had a lot of people that I know where they're late filing their taxes, they're late paying their taxes. And so Morgan is going to kind of help us talk through that and talk through solutions and best practices and all that. So definitely a very valuable episode. So welcome to the show, Morgan. We're so excited to have you.
Morgan Anderson
Hey, Mike, thanks so much for having me. Um, taxes is one of those topics that typically is taboo in social circles. But let me tell you, there are millions of people across the US who have a tax debt issue just at the federal level. It just multiplies when you get to the state level because every state has so many intricate, more local details and taxes that you have to tend to. So if first things 1st, 1st thing I would say is, is if you are getting those love notes, as we love to call them, from the IR's or the state, don't be upset about it, don't be ashamed about it. Just know it kind of happens in the course of doing business and it's just one of those hiccups that you have to address along the way.
Mike Swenson
So talk a little bit about how people can get into being behind on their taxes or filing taxes, things like that, because they don't intend to. Some people might, but I would say most people don't intend to just not file, not pay. But life gets busy. Or as you have multiple irons in the fire, you might miss something. And so kind of talk about maybe how that process starts, and then we can focus on kind of what to do when you find yourself in those situations.
Morgan Anderson
Yeah, boy, it can be anything. You know, it can be. You have a bunch of rental properties, right? This happened. Happened in COVID. And then all of a sudden, people aren't paying their rent, but you're having to pay the mortgage on those properties, right? So your cash flow kind of dries up. And then what you had intended to use for estimated tax payments, you don't have the funds for. And then before you know it, you're filing and there's a balance owed on it, and you're hoping to get caught up the next year. But then a natural disaster happens, like a tornado, right? And then that takes all your resources, and you're trying to rebuild. Like you said, when you have so many irons in the fire, it's very easy for one event to cause a ripple effect and have an impact on your cash flow, have an impact on your ability to make your estimated tax payments, and then have an ability on you to have all your records accessible before the filing deadline. That's another one. I've had many people come to me where they lost a computer and they couldn't access the records that were in it. They were trying to piece together their records from bank statements, QBo. They had a problem with Quickbooks online and lost all their data, and it wasn't backed up. You know, with the technology advancements we've had in the more recent years, that tends to happen less and less, but it has happened, and all those are very viable reasons why you get caught a little bit behind the eight ball, and it makes it so hard to get back in front of it. The key thing to do is if you have an event that impacts you, first thing you want to do is get with your CPA, get with your accountant, and come up with a game plan. Don't ignore it. Just be proactive. The more proactive you can be, the better in control of the situation you can be to minimize the length of time it takes to get back in control.
Mike Swenson
Now that I have multiple businesses. I remember the first time I talked to somebody like, oh, yeah, I just file an extension every year. Right. What we have to remember is the extension is the extension to file taxes, not the extension to pay taxes. And so if you owed money, they keep track of what you've owed, and there's penalties and there's delays. Sometimes that happens. And, yeah, if you have multiple entities, you know, making sure that all that stuff gets closed up and filed to be able to finish, or if you have llcs that flow into your personal taxes. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff out there.
Morgan Anderson
Absolutely. It's so funny when. When somebody says, oh, I just filed an extension, I always cringe, because, remember, as a self employed individual, you are required to pay estimated tax payments on the income that you're receiving throughout the year, right? And if so, your first tax deposit in 2024 for your income received so far this year was due on April 15. Right? So if you don't know what you did last year and, you know, your books are always kind of happening in the moment, the easiest way to make your estimated tax payments is using the prior year's records to guesstimate until you get your arms around things later in the year. Because usually it's around June or July, when you really get the first quarter caught up with all your p and ls and everything. Unless you are absolutely anal about your numbers. If you are, kudos to you. Most people I talk to, most business owners, they're a few months behind. So if you don't have your 2023 tax return done by April 15 of 2024, you are spitballing about what your estimated tax will be that's due on April 15. And then, okay, so let's say you get your tax return done in October of 2024. You're flying blind with your first few estimates that are due in 2024, then, you know, it just. It puts you behind. So anytime somebody says, oh, well, my CPA always files an extension. They handle 1040 cases first, and then they work with the business owners. Find a CPA who feels that sense of urgency for letting you know where you are tax wise, at least throughout the year. That CPA or accountant relationship is one of the most important ones. As a self employed or business owner like you, you need to have that person be on speed dial. Right. It kind of. I always kind of think of it as a relationship with, like, a priest. You know, confess everything to them because they're the ones that are giving you the guidance to keep you out of trouble moving forward, staying on top of it, trying not to file extensions. That is one of the, the biggest stressors I can, I can share with you all today.
Mike Swenson
And like you said, to your point, I mean, yeah, there might be an issue where, yeah, you've fallen on some hard times and you didn't have the income that you thought you were going to have and you're trying to catch up. So if you start to see maybe that ball continuing to grow in the negative direction, how do people get out of that? What's the steps to start getting ahead of the curve?
Morgan Anderson
Great question. Um, and this is where most clients are. When they come to me, they say, wow, you know, I haven't been able to make my estimated tax payments for the last year and a half. I'm like, okay, great, well, let's focus first on stopping the bleeding, right? Draw that line in the sand and say, okay, when is our next tax payment due and what can we do to make, if not all of it, part of it, right. It's like taking that first proactive step. That's the best way that you can start getting back in control of it. Even if you're paying only 50% of what your estimated tax payment should be, you're taking a huge step towards stopping that bleeding. Another important thing to note about estimated tax payments is the minimum is to make them four times a year. And I don't know if most people know this, a lot of the clients who come to me seem a bit shocked when we share this information with them. But you can make an estimated tax payment every time you have a transaction, every time you get a distribution from your business, you can carve out a portion of it and go on the IR's and the state websites and make an estimated tax payment. If that's the easier way for you to manage your money, put systems and, and habits in place that will help you be a success with it. Because I know a lot of people, if I always tell my clients, think of it as like a monthly car payment, right? Like every month. Once we dial in that number every month. If you have a steady, you know, solid, stable monthly financial movement, make that an estimated, estimated tax payment every month like a car payment, and then you will never be caught behind. It's when you think, oh, well, I'm a little light this month, I'll just work hard and catch up next month. The catch up seems to kind of never happen. Put in a habit that makes it successful for you.
Mike Swenson
Trey, one of the things, when I first got into real estate, I had come from. Well, even in real estate. I was in a w two job for quite a while on the admin operations side, but I remember hearing people talk about, if you've got that non consistent income, set up an LLC and then pay yourself a salary. And so then that way you're not necessarily watching your bank account. You're letting your bank account kind of rise and fall depending on how you have commissions. But if you have a consistent salary that you're able to pay yourself as an employee of the LLC, that hopefully helps to balance things out. Is that a good piece of advice?
Morgan Anderson
It is good. The only caution I would put with that is if you convert yourself to a w two employee, then you have to file payroll tax returns. So, you know, on the 1099 side or the distribution side, you have self employed self employment tax. You get charged on your 1040. If you convert to paying yourself w two, then you have added payroll obligations for the business with workers comp, with unemployment insurance. So just make sure you work with your accountant or your CPA, do your homework, just set yourself up for success. Now, do you want to talk about what you do if you get a nasty love note from the IR's and the state?
Mike Swenson
Sure. Yeah.
Morgan Anderson
Because this is. This is where a lot of people kind of make a misstep when it comes to taxes. They will start getting notices, and first thing they do is fall into what I call ostrich syndrome, where if I don't look at it, if I just bury my head in the sand, if I don't put any heat and light on it, it's something that I can just deal with later. Right. And what ends up happening is when you're letting that bill sit there month to month and you're not addressing it because you feel like there are other things that are more important. First of all, you're getting nailed with penalties and interest, and that just makes the debt start snowballing. And then if it happens for the next quarter or the next year, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and it turns into like a runaway freight train. So when you start getting notices, first thing you want to do is sit down, read them, make sure they're accurate. Right. We have a lot of people who mail in tax returns still, if they, especially if they do them themselves and let's say the IR's or the state got them and recorded them as late, even though you mailed them by the 15th, you're going to hit with a late filing penalty. Well, that's not right. And that's why it's important to read the notices that you get. But if you start getting notices, be proactive. Talk to your accountant. Call a tax debt resolution professional. If it's beyond like 25,000 in income tax, get a professional involved where this is all they do. Your CPA, your accountants are great with, like, smaller liabilities. If it's below 15,000, you can handle it yourself. You can call them and say, hey, one blip on the screen, I just got behind. Didn't realize it. I'd like to set up payments to address it. You can do that if it's a larger liability. You know, definitely talk to somebody where this is all they do all day long is handle, because they're going to know the ins and outs, they're going to know the programs available to you based on your situation, and they're going to be able to give you the best advice of where you are on the tax debt chessboard and what strategic moves you should start taking and where you want to end up at the end of it.
Mike Swenson
Now, how would that work for finding somebody? How do we know if somebody's reputable? How do we know if it's not somebody that's trying to take advantage of somebody that's in need? Just like a lot of things with vendor references, you want to try to hopefully find somebody that's reputable and is going to do the right thing for you. What would be some steps that maybe they could do to find somebody that's going to help them?
Morgan Anderson
Wow, great question. You know, with any industry, you've got great people. You've got really ethical people who will always do right by the clients. Like, they just have that, that driving ethical compass, and then you have the shysters, as we call them, and everything in between. It's really hard. It honestly, I mean, you see the ads on tv, you hear them on the radio, ESPN plays them, you know, all the major news networks. And those are our resolution mills, right? Talk to your accountant, talk to your CPA. Say, hey, I want to hire somebody, but I want somebody who isn't a mill, somebody who's got a good reputation. The IR's website has a list of, uh, enrolled agents that outline their professionals. That's a great place to look. There's a company called tax cure that has a list of professionals in the industry. And depending on what state you're in, what your scenario is, they can help match you with somebody who's really good. You can reach out to me. I mean, I have my own firm, not gonna, you know, shy away from that. I mean, we've been doing this. I've been in this industry for over 24 and a half years, and my team and I have a very strong obligation to our clients. When we take a client on, that's just how we operate. I would be happy if somebody says, hey, I'm looking at hiring this person. Can you take a look and let me know if you think they're reputable? I am happy to share that knowledge with anybody. There are a lot of really good tax debt resolution professionals out there, and sometimes it just takes somebody from within the industry to say, yeah, that's a good one, or, this sends off red flags for me. Another big thing is, listen to your gut. If you get on the phone with them and they aren't interested in really knowing the details of your situation, there's a red flag. If they're getting pushy about trying to sell you a settlement program or the IRS's fresh start initiative, you better jump on it right now because they're going to take it away soon. You know, you're dealing with somebody who's just a sales company for a mill. You all are. Being in the real estate field, you've kind of honed in on that inner voice, right? Like following your intuition. Jump on the phone with somebody and see what you think about them. If they feel honest and, and you look online, do a little research, you see good things about them, trust your gut on it.
Mike Swenson
And typically, how does that work? Because obviously we know these people aren't working for free. They need to get compensated. So how does that work? When you're working with a tax debt resolution company, how does that work from a structuring standpoint to where you're paying in, you're getting caught up, and they're getting paid for the services and the help they're providing you.
Morgan Anderson
Usually what they do is they'll start with an investigation into your situation that allows them to file a power of attorney and kind of get their arms around what the tax agencies are saying you owe. And then they'll talk to you about your financial condition and kind of put those puzzle pieces together and come up with some options. That's what we do. And then once they identify the best options and they talk to you about the pros and cons of each and educate you enough so that you, as the person who owes the debt, can say, yeah, I think I want to head down this plan. They'll be able to give you a quote of how much time it will cost. To accomplish that and what the correlating fee would be. There are a lot of companies out there, you know, here's another red flag. If you're talking to them and they say, okay, well, tell me a little bit about your income and tell me about your assets. Oh, I think you're going to be an offer in compromise. It'll be $8,000 shy away from those companies. Right. Because you want somebody who's actually going to invest a little bit into knowing the details, not just a spitball picture, so that they can give you a valid, hey, I can tell you this, we can definitely get accomplished for you based on what the IR's or the state told us and based on the financial picture you've shared with us. Here's about how many hours we know it will take to get this done, and here's what our fee will be correlating to that.
Mike Swenson
And how does that relate in regards to the state that you live in and the state the company might be based out of, that helps you? I mean, obviously at a federal level, you're handling that. But from a state level, what do we need to know in terms of kind of states that folks work in or specialize in, or how does that work?
Morgan Anderson
Great question. Um, you know, depending on how long somebody's been in the industry and what their license is like. For my team, we're all enrolled agents licensed by the IR's, so we can handle clients nationwide. Every state recognizes enrolled agents as being the elite of the tax professional. Like, we can negotiate everything but going into court, right? And it's very rare that a tax debt situation has to go to court, I will tell you that now. But if you are looking within, like, let's say you're in the state of Florida and you have a sales tax issue, or let's say you're in California, you've got an income tax issue, right? Your, everybody in your state should be licensed as either a CPA, an attorney, or an enrolled agent. Like we are. Cpas and attorneys are confined to the states that they're licensed in, licensed to operate in. And a lot of attorneys will handle a few states around them. Or if they're involved with a lot of corporations that usually form out of Maryland or Delaware, they'll be licensed in all of them. But enrolled agents can handle people nationwide and depending on how long they've been doing this and what type of clientele areas they pull their clients from, like, for us, we're nationwide, we've handled every state in the US. Some people only focus on the area that they're geographically in, like the four Corners or Ohio, Indiana, Illinois. So just ask, find out, call them. That should be part of your due diligence. Right? Like, I'm located in Washington. Can you help me here? There are a few states that are a little, a little concerned with where people are as far as their licensed professionals. Like Oregon sometimes will give a little bit of pushback because they're looking out for their constituents, which is good. But usually you can work things out with them if you're looking at hiring somebody who's maybe in New York as examples. So just talk to them. Say, you know, are there any problems with you representing me? There's a few payroll issues, mostly around workers comp, that are a liability. If somebody would sign a power of attorney, like Illinois, their Department of Economic Security and Employment Security, they, if you sign a power of attorney with them, the professional is on, on the hook for the debt. So, yeah, a lot of those you won't get a lot of help with, but those, those are some really severe, minor type of tax situations that people could have. Mostly those don't hit real estate.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. And I know as somebody that's now investing in other states, right, like now you're bringing in, it's not just the state where I live, you've got other states and that starts to blossom. And so, yeah, there's a lot to stay on top of.
Morgan Anderson
There is. And that's why, again, going back to one of my first bits of advice, make your CPA or accountant like one of your trusted advisors. Make sure they know every move that you're making so that they can give you great guidance along the way.
Morgan Anderson
Sure. You know what? There is one more thing that hits the industry. Tax liens on property. So just know if there is a property that you are looking at buying and there is a tax lien recorded on it and maybe the sale will not full pay that lien. So you're like, okay, gosh, can we do anything about it? There is always a way to discharge the lien so that you can buy it without that lien remaining attached. I will tell you, more and more I hear about realtors who don't even know that that is a possibility. They, they have somebody come to them and like, oh, I want to sell this property but has a tax lien on it and they'll shy away from being involved with it because they don't know that there's ways to handle it. So, yeah, don't ever let a tax lien shy you away from purchasing a property because there are ways to get that lien removed even if it's not going to be full paid.
Mike Swenson
And I will say, you know, for somebody that wants to find deals or continue to grow and become more sophisticated as an investor in real estate or as an agent, whatever that might be, sometimes it's the more complex deals or the trickier deals where you can find some good opportunities. And so especially in a more difficult environment with higher interest rates, like, if you can separate yourself as somebody that can maybe do the things that most people shy away from, there's certainly some opportunity there. And so, yeah, if it's a property or something where somebody might say, nope, too difficult. If you can lean into it there, there's some opportunities out there.
Morgan Anderson
Lean into it.
Mike Swenson
That was, I didn't even try. I didn't even try. And I just made a great joke. Right?
Morgan Anderson
That was awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are, there are, again, you know, if your CPA or accountant or your attorney is like, I don't know what to do with it, get a tax debt resolution professional involved because they can petition the tax agency to release the lien so that you can take ownership of the property free and clear.
Mike Swenson
Well, thank you so much, Morgan, for coming on. For people that want to reach out to you and learn more about you and your book, how can they do that?
Morgan Anderson
Yeah, go to our website, Golden lion tax solutions, or look me up on LinkedIn or Facebook. Morgan Q Anderson Ea I'm happy to help. You know, give us a call at our office if you run into any situations where you even just want somebody to give some advice to you or lend it lend some credibility to somebody you're looking at hiring. We're always happy to help. You know, I feel like knowledge is free to all of us if we just do a little bit of legwork and we're happy to share ours. You know, we reside in a funky little corner of the tax world and just want to help everybody get past any kind of tax hiccup concern. You know, something that's keeping them awake at night just helps to kind of share that burden with somebody else and get some input. We're happy to do it.
Mike Swenson
Well, thank you so much, Morgan, for coming on and sharing. And if you're listening to this, absolutely reach out to her at least just to, you know, get some advice or get pointed in the right direction.
Morgan Anderson
Yeah. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it. It.
