Ralph DiBugnara: The Real Estate Disruptor


Growing up and struggling financially, Ralph DiBugnara knew that he wanted more for himself. Today he is president of Home Qualified, a digital resource for buyers and sellers, and Vice President of Cardinal Financial. In total, Ralph has helped fund over $40 Billion of real estate loans and manages a real estate portfolio of over $20 Million. He started a series called The Real Estate Disruptors. His program focuses on creating an elite network of industry leaders to help brokers succeed in the social media-driven economy. He also launched a mentoring program for inner-city young adults called "The Generation Disruptor Scholarship Program" to educate students on how to get into the real estate industry, break generational curses, and cultivate leaders in their communities.


In this episode hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:

  • How Ralph learned the lesson from losing almost everything in real estate and rebuilt his portfolio back up
  • The key to success in an uncertain and unstable market
  • The mindset you need to have to get returning guests in your rental properties
  • How to navigate the emotional ups and downs of real estate
  • How can technology help you to do more and excel in the real estate market
  • How Ralph puts helps agents get licensed and puts them into real-life situations to sharpen their skills quickly



0:00 - Ralph's Career Overview
4:26 - Disrupting To Bounce Back Instead Of Playing It Safe
7:03 - Keeping Your Momentum Going
8:30 - The Path of Ralph's Investment Properties And Growth
17:06 - Hands On Vs. Hands Off
18:24 - The Growth Trap Book
24:56 - Ralph's Vision Of His Future
28:20 - Helping Others Through General Disrupter Scholarship Program
30:04 - How To Find Ralph












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Read the full transcript here:

Mike Swenson
Welcome to The REL Freedom Podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson, let's get some real freedom together.

Mike Swenson
Welcome everybody to another episode of The REL Freedom Podcast where we talk about building time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. And I love people who love to think against the grain who love to disrupt the industry, who love to challenge kind of the traditional ways of thinking and find a different pattern. And so today, we've got a wonderful guest for you, Ralph D, big naira. And he's going to talk about lots of different things in real estate, you've got a lot of stuff going on. So just a quick background here, serial entrepreneur, real estate expert, Wall Street Journal, Best Selling Author of your book, the growth trap, you've worked in the mortgage industry, so president of home qualified digital resource for buyers and sellers, Vice President of Cardinal financial, a mortgage loan company, you funded over $40 billion in loans and have a real estate portfolio over $20 million. And then you have a series called The Real Estate disruptors, amongst other things, that you're doing a lot of community efforts. And so you've just got your your hand and a lot of different things. And so we'll talk about kind of how you see opportunities in the market, work on them and really change your family tree as well. Because you know, you grew up struggling financially. And so now you've built a great life for yourself. So we'll talk about that as well. So welcome to the show, Ralph.

Ralph DiBugnara
Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Mike Swenson
Yeah, just share a little bit more, you know, expand on your background, and how you got to where you're at.

Ralph DiBugnara
So I've been in I started in mortgages in 2001, kind of because I couldn't find a job doing anything else, they'll do it. When I graduated college, I can only there was only really sales jobs. And I was selling copiers, door to door and a friend pulled me into the mortgage business. And I figured I'd give it a try. But it was great for me because it enabled me to buy my first property at 23. I just kind of had the wrong strategy the first time around in real estate. So between like 2001 to 2008, I was buying, and I was working in it. And by 2008, you know, just not knowing enough and following the wrong trends. And just like ignorance, like, you know, ignorance of youth and pride and everything else, I I lost everything almost in 2007 2008, I lost my job, I lost my money. And I went from living in a penthouse on Wall Street to a studio apartment, and an outer borough of New York. And it was dark at the time, but it was when I look back on it. Now it's kind of where I draw all my experience and my strength from that was really the foundation of it, to kind of go through that experience and tear it all the way down and have to build it all back up again. And then, you know, from 2008, to about 2013, I rebuilt my mortgage business. And it's probably where I got my most momentum in this business. So when people talks about what's currently going on in the market, I don't think it's anywhere near the same thing as 2008. But I also feel like it's a real opportunity for people to grow, because there's less people in the market now, right? Like it's less competition. So I think it's a great time to enter even though it's going to be harder, then between 2013 and 2000. And now I've kind of built my real estate portfolio back up, built the mortgage business back up my partners, we did about $2 billion last year and mortgages this year will be a lot less, but we'll still be over a billion. And it just kind of riding the wave of real estate right after the and that's really what it is it's learning that it's a cycle market. And you just have to kind of be prepared for what those cycles are

Mike Swenson
Talking about kind of the disruption aspect because you know, I grew up in a family where it was, you know, get a good job, have your W two save for retirement. And that's kind of how I was wired in my thinking. And, and even in real estate, there's people who like to kind of do the things the way that they've always been done. Follow the pattern that's already been done in the past. And you know, somebody who likes to disrupt things, sees different opportunities, rather might seeders rocking the boat a little bit. So talk about that aspect for you how you've been able to find those opportunities, and you said you had it, you've lost a lot of it. And then you were able to build it back up doing that versus going back to something that's considered more safe, stable. So I'd love to hear just kind of your thoughts on that a little bit more.

Speaker 2
Yeah. And I have a similar background to you. My father was a teacher. And he you know, had the same job forever and he still has the same job he still teaches and you know, I when I first got into the workforce, I thought that's what it was right? You go work for one company, you work there for your whole life, you get a pension, you retire, you kind of move on. And I was almost forced to the entrepreneurship but I think that's what my spirit was always that I always wanted to do. But even when I was doing well in one business that was always looking to do something else. And I think with that, you know real estate's been a really good catalyst for everything else I tried to do because after going through what I went through a real estate, I really look at it as a long term investment always Now I always look at it try to three to five years down the road. And either How do I sustain it three to five years down the road? Or how can I exit it 35 years down the road. So I look at business and life that way too, in general, whereas I never get too high and never get too low. You know, when the market was great the last couple of years, and there was a lot more money flowing, and there's a lot more opportunity to buy. I thought of it in a long term place. You know, if I buy these, this property or this these properties, how do I add it that helped me long term this, this pushed me more towards what my ultimate goal is where I want these properties to sustain my lifestyle without having to work a job eventually. So and I don't know if I'll ever not work because I think I like working, but I want that was my goal. So when I look at it now, and I look at my portfolio now, for the Airbnb stuff, or the short term rental stuff I own, it's still doing pretty well. And for the long term rental, I know as you know, you've kind of seen the markets, right? In 2007 2008. The one thing that was consistent is rent still went up. So as a long term real estate owner, I'm not somebody who flips a lot of properties. I'm not somebody who really is in and out of transactions that fast. I look at it as a very stable lifestyle, even in a bad market, as long as I think I'm thinking into the future. And I'm not, I'm not making decisions in the now every single time.

Mike Swenson
And having your hands in a few different businesses, you're able to kind of sit at the cockpit and look at the levers on the different gears, you know, the different things that you have. And based on the market changes, you can decide to dial something up, dial something back, shift something a little bit. And so where some people might see this as risky because you're you're doing lots of different things, or maybe your time and attention is divided, you know, have the ability to kind of tweak the dials based on how the market changes. And yet you're still in the real estate market. So it's you've you've taken all that you've learned and we're able to build and capitalise on it. But now you can kind of shift things in a shifting market.

Ralph DiBugnara
Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point. I think, right now on every piece of it, right? I think that my my mindset right now is that in a market where there's going to be less people probably over the next couple of years, because it's gotten, it's gotten a little harder, right. And in a market where it's a little bit unstable and uncertain when on what's gonna happen next. This is only these are always disciples that I've made the most progress in for the future. So my goal right now is that we're profit margins are almost out across the board on every every funnel that I'm in, right. Every business that I'm in this is if I work consistently through this, and I work to grow these businesses and not a great market. When I come out of this, I'll have a lot of momentum. And as far as that is Sunday is when you come in and the stock markets down and real estate's down and interest rates are up and all that stuff, right. I think if I look at it in a place where all I'm trying to do today is is build some gets you to give me momentum in the future. You know, that really keeps me going. And every one of the businesses and I think that's the key right now is is to just keep your momentum going.

Mike Swenson
Let's touch on the investment piece a little bit, because I know a lot of our listeners are curious as you think about building your investment portfolio. And everybody has a different story. So I want to dig into that a little bit. Talk about you know, you've gotten your first properties. You built it, the market change, you lost it we've talked about you kind of have a specialty here in short term rentals and do an Airbnb. So just kind of talk about that, that path of your investment properties and growth.

Ralph DiBugnara
Yeah, so you know, the first time I went through it, I got on, I got on maybe not the best trend between 2003 in 2008. Like I got in smart, right, I bought, I bought a multifamily first. And that did really, really well for me, and I sold it, I had a profit, and I started buying properties in Florida market at the time, which was really a market that you could buy pre construction properties, an area that was being built up all over the place. And a lot of times even sell those pre construction properties before they were finished. Like that was a big trend. And so I was like, Oh, this is great. Even though I have no track record, I have no history in it. And it's not a lot of history. And in general, because it was really, in that time period, something new that people were doing for the most part, right. And I did it a few times. And it was great. And I kept doing it. And at the end of it, I got caught holding the bag on a bunch of properties because I bought properties in 2005 and 2006 that weren't going to be finished until 2008 or 2007. And by the time they were finished, there were 30% of what I paid for them. So, you know, I learned a lot in doing that. And when I started to rebuild it, I was like, alright, well, I have to have a piece of my portfolio that's always stable. So historically, what's stable, right? Long term rental properties, whether it be single family, or multifamily properties are pretty stable over time, because rent always goes up, right? So if I can get something that it may and those properties in my experience, at least, you're not going to make a tonne of money monthly on them. But I want to make I try to look at real estate investments where I want to make between 10 and 50% return on investment. So I don't know Looking at Cap rates, but if I put $100,000 into a property, I want to make $10,000 a year on that property. And I want to try to be added that investment, depending on the type of investment and so on my short term rental properties, when I look at them, now I want to be out, I want to have my money back within five to seven years, on my longer term, things like multifamily is I'm okay with eight to 10 years. So that's how I look at things, is this a good investment or not a big investment. So when I first started building it again, I was like, Alright, I'm gonna look at the stuff that's 10 years, eight to 10 years, multi families, I don't make a lot of money monthly on them, but equity wise, over time, they appreciate and their income producing great just let them both and function. And then, you know, 2018 2019, I started looking at the short term of the Airbnb market, and then, especially when COVID hit and everything shut down, and I was sitting in this office by myself most days, and I had a lot of time to concentrate on it, I really started to look at that market. And I looked at it, I always try to look as Where's there, what is the advantage in the market today, and that market, it was a low interest rate market, right. So I was like, I can buy properties for a really, really cheap monthly expense, right? Now, I'm gonna go do that. So I, I can take more risk on the property, because I'm going to have less risk on my monthly payments. So that's when I started kind of really going full force towards the Airbnb market. Because because the payments were so low comparatively, right, I can make my money back quicker on that stuff. And they didn't have to have a 10 year cycle, they may only have to have a five year cycle. So I started looking at things that way. And that was the advantage I saw there. And I started running towards that. And, you know, over that period, between 2019 and 2000, in early 2020, to late 2022, even I bought between like 12 and 15, short term rental property there were mostly in vacation areas. And the thing I liked about those properties at the time, and I still liked that market, it just not the same exact way is that I was making enough monthly on some of them where I could use the money to to leverage and buy something else. And that's kind of what I did. And when I found markets that were appreciated, appreciating fast, and the Airbnb income was good, I tried to buy multiple properties in those markets. So that that's, you know, different strategies based on market. So when I look at the market today, it's a little confusing to me if I'm being honest with you, whereas I don't know where the next thing is coming. I think there's definitely some opportunity in the commercial market right now. Or there's going to be over the next three to six months. And I think an Airbnb, there's some there's some opportunity, because vacation areas are the one market that I'm seeing consistently where the prices have come down. Because I think people the first thing people sell is right, what is a luxury item for us? Well, it's our second home. Okay, well, let's get rid of our second home. So, but it hasn't decreased in renters. As a matter of fact, you may even get more renters there because if people sell the second homes, they may become renters and those markets if they want to go back so I think there's there's there's an opportunity in short term rental markets and vacation areas right now. And I'm looking in those markets. As a buyer, if I can find stuff that makes sense.

Mike Swenson
And I believe to you know, the market, you obviously want to pick a market that makes sense. But in terms of saturation of a market, if you're able to do something really well you should be able to rise to the noise. And where people might get pushed out in those markets are the people that you know, haven't really, you know, we talked about in short term rental, like you're in the hospitality business. And so people that don't really get that they don't have great photos, it's not decorated well, they just think If I slap my property on there, people are gonna sign up. But if you take a strategic approach, you should be able to cut through kind of those average players in those market regardless of how saturated it can be.

Ralph DiBugnara
1,000% I think you have to change your mindset right as as a landlord and as you're, you're literally a hotel concierge or hospitality person at this point. And you have to think you have to create an experience in the home, it has to be the properties I bought, I want to make sure that they're in areas that are desirable to be in whereas there's attractions in the area that bring people there that are not my house. My best houses as far as income purposes aren't necessarily my nicest houses, they're the areas that have the most to do because people don't spend a lot of time in the house they're out doing the ramp the restaurants and the bars and the beaches and the lakes or whatever it is so it just you have to change your mindset a little bit around that and I've had to learn it's been a learning experience it definitely hasn't been easy but it's been a learning experience and but now we're in a good rhythm and most of my properties were on the platform for two or three years and now I'm getting returned guests and and and that really changes you know people keep asking me like is your Airbnb income up this year? It is not a significant amount where I'm like it's up 30% Now it's probably up five to 10% but it's really because of return guests more experienced in the market so I understand when to adjust prices and not to adjust prices. I understand cycles better. This is a hot month this is a call Hold month, this is a dead month, like so I understand kind of where to take advantage of things and where to not worry about things. And I think with short term rental property specifically, it takes about 12 months to understand your home.

Mike Swenson
And I do think in terms of balancing kind of the long term rentals that you have, you know, apartment complexes multifamily mixed with short term rental, it's, it's a good diversification technique, because you get the long term play the safe, stable, mixed with a little bit of, you know, what's hot, what's happening right now. And once again, we kind of talked about as markets change, you're able to adjust those dials a little bit, but being in both of those together, I think provides a good mix.

Ralph DiBugnara
Yeah, it gives me a good balance. It's good for my mind, where I don't have to worry about certain properties, like is this property going to not rent this month? Where's the Airbnb, so you know, anything can happen, I had a property in Florida, that happened again, it's been hit by like three storms this year. So you know that that's an unpredictable thing, like, you know, so and but the property does very, very well. So I'm dealing with it right now. And, you know, I try to buy in areas where I can control the majority of the costs and, and the variables. So if I can buy in an area that has low taxes and low insurance, it's ideal, because that's a variable that I can't necessarily control. But it's, it's stable enough where I can adjust if it changes, so much like, I'll use Florida again, because it's just a good example, right now, the insurance costs in Florida are through the roof right now, it's almost a crisis there at this point where people were having huge issues, they were insurance, and I have a bunch of properties down there. And it's become more of a problem over the last four or five years. But when people ask me where to buy, and they bring that up, I I hesitate a little bit just because insurance costs, I think there's going to be ultimately going to be a fixed there because the government starting to address it. But you know, it's a big variable, my insurance costs went up in an already high market in 2023, and other 20 to 30%. In some markets, that's a huge variable, like that's not a variable you want to like, build a business around. So you know, just something to kind of look at the market what's going on in that market? Specifically, when you're buying properties?

Mike Swenson
So out of curiosity than for people that have a dozen properties? Plus, like you in the short term space? How much are you hands on versus working through? Like a property manager? co host? You know, something like that? How much are you hands on? Versus hands off?

Ralph DiBugnara
Good question. So I manage her I have enough at this point, we manage everything in house, but even managing everything in house, you know, so I have somebody who somebody in house who handles the accounting, the bookings, and who manages the, the maintenance people and the cleaners. So I have three basically three people who kind of full time work on that stuff. As long as you have a good cleaner, and a good handyman, and a market that you're not in, you're fine, right? If you have a good cleaner, a good cleaner will take pictures of the property before and after somebody is there, a good maintenance person can be at the property within a few hours. As long as you have that. I think you can that I really truly believe at this point, you can manage a property everywhere, that it's no problem and as long as it so I'm hands on to that point, overall picture, hey, do we have our key elements in each of these markets? Okay, great. And you're gonna go to vendors and you're gonna go through, you know, handyman you're gonna go through, you're gonna have to find new people and cleaners, you're gonna have to find new people. But with those two stable, people in each market, I think can manage property anywhere.

Mike Swenson
Let's touch on your book here. So the growth trap, talk about the inspiration behind that, and then talk about the content here of what people need to hear from you.

Ralph DiBugnara
Yeah, so, you know, this is something that I wrote during, during, again, COVID, I was in my office with some free time, my hand and I started writing, but it's really a story about my life in this business. And it really mostly in this business, and these kind of growth traps that I've gotten myself into, and a growth trap is basically, you know, between the ages of like infancy and like 18, we get bigger, we get stronger, we get smarter, we really learn very, very easily. And then we get to a point. And for me, it was earlier than that, but we get to a point in life where it stops becoming easy. And some people don't push through. Like we get to a point where it becomes hard to learn hard to grow hard to get past an obstacle. And a lot of us quit and I and I growth, you know, growth traps are kind of continuous through life, like they never ran, you know, we're in one now, right? Like, this is something I could show up today and was like, this market sucks. And I want to do this today. And like, I'm gonna go find something else to do. And I have to recognise that I'm stunting my own growth. And the book really talks about a lot of stuff I've gone through in that way in real estate, and how I came up with things to kind of get by it and a mindset to try to stay in to kind of get through those traps that we continuously face for the rest of our lives.

Mike Swenson
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of people in real estate that yeah, they they try to just stay in one lane. And I know for me, I went from being on the admin side to being starting my own team to working with investors. And I feel like I'm constantly learning you know, And it's like you have to stay active, you can't just get stuck on the way that things have been. And I know there's a lot of, you know, topic and just kind of residential real estate or even, you know, like you've got these large eye buyers coming in and buying properties and, and agents are concerned about their Commission's getting shrunk or, you know, different things and how that's working. And I see a lot of people just being reactive to these rules and regulations are out there that are putting me in a box. And you've got to find ways to stay relevant to stay nimble to stay agile as things are changing, versus just kind of letting the news come to you and saying up this, you know, heck in a handbasket. My Commission's being cut my incomes being cut, I guess I'm just stuck. But it's really finding ways to reinvent yourself push through, be a learner and be willing to, to say I don't know it all, you know, kind of the the being the dumbest person in the room mentality, like you gotta you know, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, you got to go in other rooms to be in the level up?

Ralph DiBugnara
For sure. Yeah, that's amazing point on life, right. It's like, you got to continue to find ways to grow. And however that's gonna be it's not a, it's not an easy thing. And, you know, I have a friend that locally trains a bunch of NFL guys. And I see them around when I go to the gym, and I see them around the neighbourhood now because they're because of him. And he says to me, so 95% of them don't like their jobs. And so think about that, like professional athletes, like you think you look at them like that. And, you know, they don't like their jobs every day. So I think that all of us can be in a place where this, I don't want to do this, and it's never going to be great. And I went through this kind of myself over the summer, when I saw that the market was really going the way it is now. Right? I was like, do I really want to go through this again. And then I put it into perspective, I was like, I make a good living, I have opportunity every single day, I can pick my kids up from school if I want, you know, I like I put quality of life into perspective, and what this business provides me. And I kind of straighten myself out and said, Yes, stop thinking like that, like just go back to be you know, be consistent and keep working on it and appreciate the good things around you and work on the things that are hard. And that's it. I think that's all we can do.

Ralph DiBugnara
I love his podcast, by the way. And I heard that podcast and it resonated with me the same way it resonated with you. It's like, it's tough being Tom Brady, it's tough being you know, it's, you know, every year you have to put this much work into get to just function. So I think we just thought and I think I use this example, a lot like this is like 10 years ago, I've been in a bunch of different businesses. And at some point, I thought I wanted to own a pizzeria because it was cash and like this, or that, right. So I went to go meet with this guy who owned a pizzeria. He was like, What are you thinking, Ron? Right. And so if you talk to anybody who has been in the business for a certain amount of time, they're gonna be able to tell you all the bad things, more bad things and good things a lot of the times because it's their daily life. So I think we all just have and we have to put it, we have to keep it in perspective.

Mike Swenson
So then what are you thinking about here for the future the next couple of years The market and kind of the businesses that you have what's going through your head as you think about the future?

Ralph DiBugnara
Yeah, you know, I think that this is the first year with my mortgage business where we've actually had to replace people with technology, like really replaced people's jobs with technology. So it's starting to become more of a reality than before. So I think everything I'm looking at right now, whether I'm buying or it's something that I'm entering in as a business, is that is this something that can be replaced by technology? And is this something I can make money on with technology, and more than anything, I'm thinking of my mortality in that way. You know, where's the biggest upside for the next five to 10 years, because if we don't adapt, we die, right. So I just think that I'm already thinking of adaptation to what technology is today, and what's going to be replaced, and what's going to be even more necessary than ever, but I think real estate's a great place to be in general, because, you know, an agent's always going to be relevant, maybe they cut the condition, maybe they don't, but you'll always need somebody who's going to be, there's always going to be an emotional sides of real estate, and you're always going to need somebody to kind of walk you through that. So I think that's a good place to be I think, property management's a great place to be. I don't think that's going anywhere, you can't replace property manager, but technology, things break, things go wrong, owning real estate. So I'm looking along, I think we have to look at things along those lines, because, you know, technology is coming fast and furious. And it's going to keep replacing more aspects of our daily life. So what what where can we excel by by one using and, and to avoiding things that are going to replace us,

Mike Swenson
I always go back to the example of when I got into real estate, and I was on a team, I was on a team and it had a couple agents that had been in the business for 2025 years. And, and they talk about, you know, things like to go find a house, I had to go to my broker's office and look through a book, because they had a book of all the properties that were available. And then every week or two, you'd get an update of the book. Well, that's obviously been replaced and the agent is still there. And then I think about two they talked about submitting offers, you would go to an office and everybody who is submitting an offer on a property was physically there to present the offer, either to the the listing agent or to the sellers. And so you'd have to physically go drive to the office to present an offer. And now you're able to write up an offer submitted an email it and you get that fast turnaround time. And so the agent is still there. So it's it's not all doom and gloom, like technology is there for the positive for a lot of people where, yes, jobs might be replaced through technology. But what that does is that frees you up to go do other things, and maybe pursue things that you love more than doing whatever your xyz job is. So it allows you to do more with less and pick and choose where you want to go in your area of specialty.

Ralph DiBugnara
I think it's it's an excellent point, I said this from day to day, the people that have been willing to use technology to do more will excel more than anybody in this market, the people who are using technology, so they can just do less on a daily basis will still and that's it like everything else. The hard workers are the ones that gets at the front of the room, people who don't want to do as much don't I think the same goes to technology, right? If you use it to your advantage to excel, then great and religious when I think real, isn't it like when when you hire an assistant, when you hire somebody a virtual and I say, when you get to a point where you want to hire somebody to do the things you're doing so you can do more. That's when you hire an assistant if you're hiring them, so you can do less. It'll never be good for your business. And, you know, I think that same thing with technology.

Mike Swenson
I'd love to just quick touch on because I know you you've got your your general disrupter scholarship programme, you have a mentoring programme for inner city adults would love for you to just kind of share about, you know what, what you're giving back how you're helping others.

Ralph DiBugnara
Yeah, that's that's so during COVID, we were kind of sitting around the office and I was in a place where there was a lot of protesting and everything else. And I just didn't think my time was best spent. By doing that, I think my best my time is best spent as a resource for people who are trying to access things that I now have access to. Because I was a person at some point, we just didn't have access to things that I wanted. And I didn't really have any opening doors for me. So we started a scholarship programme to help people get licenced as either a real estate agent or mortgage loan officer. And I try to bring them in and put them to into real life situations. I think it's I don't want to mess up this, this whole entire quote by Confucius has a quote where it's if you tell me off, I'll forget. If you teach me, I'll remember, if you show me I'll understand. And I really try to run it around that right like, well, I'm going to tell you, we're going to teach you the right technique. But then I want to put you in physically in the field with a realtor who's experienced who's going to show you what they actually do day to day, cuz it's not glamorous, every single day. So the programme really runs that way. And we've kind of continuously bringing in people two or three at a time, where we give them a salary, we help them get licence over six months and then see where they go. And it's been interesting. It's been interesting because, you know, adapting to younger generations and philosophies and finding the right people that kind of fit but it's been really really good for me it's it's, first of all, it's a good learning exercise for me myself. And I like being an educator in the field. So it's been good kind I'm just teaching people what I think the right way to do things isn't to try to avoid the mistakes that I've made for

Mike Swenson
for people that want to learn more about you and kind of what you're doing. How can they find you? How can they reach out to you?

Ralph DiBugnara
My website has everything it has my book, it has my short term rental course it has a lot of information on the scholarship programme and it's Ralph de manera, di D ug, nar And, um, I'm pretty active on Instagram. My handle is debug DIB ug, and I answer all the DM sometimes it takes me a day or so. But I answer all the DMS there. And I've put a tonne of real estate content up there as basically all I put up there. So if anybody wants information on that, that's a great place to catch me.

Mike Swenson
Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Ralph, for coming on. Just appreciate you sharing and appreciate all that you're doing in the industry and helping others and giving back that's awesome.

Ralph DiBugnara
Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me. It's great.

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