Sonny Moyers - Solving Problems In Real Estate
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Sonny Moyers has been a real estate agent since 1971. Based out of the Dallas Fort Worth area, he's a top 1% agent in Texas for many years in his career. He was named by D Magazine as "Best In Dallas" for sixteen straight years. He is President of The Renaissance Group, a real estate brokerage, consulting, and publishing company. He authored the book "The Architecture of The Real Estate Practice", which is a thorough reference book that encapsulates all that he's learned in the field of real estate, while mixing in his perspective with his Masters in Psychology, emphasizing in Human Behavioral Theory, Interpersonal Communications Theory, Organization Design, and Research Methods. His focus has been "I don't sell homes. I solve problems and provide solutions to problems."
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Master real estate expertise and success strategies to stay ahead in the industry.
- Learn the art of building strong client relationships for long-term success in real estate.
- Prioritize profitability over volume in real estate to maximize your earnings.
- Discover client perception management strategies to enhance your professional image and reputation.
- Embrace continuous learning to stay at the top of your game in the real estate industry.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:02:30 - Background and Entry into Real Estate
00:06:32 - The Psychology of Real Estate
00:11:03 - Building a Successful Business Model
00:14:39 - The Power of Niche Marketing
00:17:12 - The Law of the Few
00:22:36 - Professionalism and Value
00:25:54 - Pricing and Differentiation
00:29:40 - Standing Out in a Saturated Market
00:30:29 - Profitability Over Volume
00:31:50 - Business Model and Success
00:32:05 - Challenges and Misconceptions
00:37:34 - Perception Sales and Marketing Strategies
Follow Sonny:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/theodeamoyersgroup/
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Sonny Moyers
I don't consider myself a product salesperson. I don't really sell homes. In fact, when people ask me how I was able to sell so many homes, my answer is, well, I don't sell homes. I help people make good decisions. I help people make solve problems. And so I became a consultative, collaborating real estate agent rather than a product oriented salesperson.
Mike Swenson
You welcome to the REL Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some REL Freedom together. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of real estate leveraged Freedom. REL Freedom, talking about how people are building time and financial freedom through different opportunities in real estate. There's a lot of things that you can do inside of the real estate space, and I love highlighting stories of different people that are having success in the real estate industry. And so if you're looking to get started in real estate, make sure you go check out our website, freedom through realestate.com. And there's a lot of great information, especially for investors, on how to get started, how to overcome barriers and different things like that. And then all the links to our podcast are on there as well. But let's get into the show today. So today we are so excited. We've got Sonny Moyers here, and Sonny has been in real estate for over 50 years. And we talk a lot about, you have to figure out how to work with people. And that's the thing is real estate is about people. We think it's about commission checks and closings and processes and all that. But it's all about how do you help people, how do you help solve their problems. And so Sonny is an expert in that, based out of the Dallas Fort Worth area, are the president of the Renaissance group and top 1% agent for quite some time. And you've got a book coming out, the architecture of the real estate practice, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. But your background actually is in psychology as well as other things. And so really digging into those details of how to help people in a way that maybe most real estate agents or people in the real estate industry don't think of. And so welcome to the show, Sonny. We're so excited to have you.
Sonny Moyers
I'm excited to be here, Mike. I appreciate the opportunity to be on your podcast.
Mike Swenson
Just talk a little bit about your background getting into real estate. Obviously, there's a lot to cover there, but just a cliff notes version of your background. And we'll dig deeper from there.
Sonny Moyers
Sure. I'll be glad to. I attended Abilene Christian University and played on the football team there. I was a defensive tackle, and I got my undergraduate degree in management with a minor in communications. And then I went back to Abilene Christian and got my master's degree in psychology, human behavioral theory, research methods. And that sounds kind of an interesting split background for a real estate agent. But I found that psychology was extremely important and very valuable in understanding how to be successful in real estate. I got into the business kind of in an interesting way. I needed money. I had a family while I went to school, and I had a young child, and I needed to take a position as a part time assistant manager in apartment complex. And two weeks after I took that position, the manager came in and dumped a bunch of books in front of me and walked out and told me to go see the owner. So the next day, I went to see the owner of this apartment complex that I was managing or assistant manager for, and his name was Wrick Kendrick, and this was in Abilene, Texas. And I went in to see him and fully expected to be terminated because I was 20 years old. I had his family. I was going to school. I didn't understand why I got the job in the first place from the gentleman who quit. But Mr. Kendrick seemed puzzled that I was there and how I got there. Asked me a few questions, and then after about 30 minutes, said to me, well, sit down and let me ask you a few questions. And he did, and I responded. And then the next thing I know, he's offering me to the manager position. Now, I was 20 years old, had never balanced a checkbook, and he turned over his apartment complex to me. Something happened in that interview, and I believe a great deal in intuitive thinking, and I think something in him caused him to believe that I was the person that he should hire to manage his apartment complex. And I'm not sure what that was. He never really told me what it was. But in any case, he hired me as his manager. And so I managed his apartment complex for the rest of my time in Abilene while I was playing football and having a family. And so that's how I got into real estate. He later offered to have me sell real estate in the summertime instead of working construction, which is what most college people did. And I passed my test, of course, and learned about real estate watching Mr. Kendrick, who was from Atlanta, Georgia, and had a thick southern draw. And he was a brilliant, very intelligent man. He was in commercial real estate, residential real estate, and I worked for him for that rest of that period and managed his apartment complex, and it went great. I really credit him in my book for me finishing my college education, because had it not been for that position and his support, I don't think I probably would have been able to finish. So that's how I got into real estate, which is kind of an od way to get into real estate. But that's what I did. I later went back and got my broker's license in real estate in Texas and did a lot of investment properties while also working for a Fortune 500 company. And my profile or my bio in my book is quite extensive. I've done a lot of research and a lot of psychology based things. But one of the things I did in my master's work, that was a little different. I studied a concept called self disclosure reciprocity, which is an interpersonal communications theory, and is something that I used a great deal. And that's why I bring in in my book, the psychology of real estate, because I agree with you, Mike. The business is really about people. I don't consider myself a product salesperson. I don't really sell homes. In fact, when people ask me how I was able to sell so many homes, my answer is, well, I don't sell homes. I help people make good decisions. I help people make solve problems. And so I became a consultative, collaborating real estate agent rather than a product oriented salesperson. And I think that's a big difference in your business model, if you're going to be successful in real eState, is to not be into product sales, because what we're selling is a big ticket item. This is not a small trinket that someone's going to buy. Okay? And so we're talking about a $500,000 investment in real estate or higher. It could be lower, but it could be higher than that nowadays. So when you're talking about that kind of a sale, the typical buyer today is not looking for someone to tell them what to do. They're looking for someone to guide them on the process of finding a home or selling a home. Or in my case, I also did commercial real estate. I helped people find space in large buildings. My typical lease that I worked on was probably 15 to 20,000 larger. So I had a very varied background. My business model for real estate was quite different. It was both commercial real estate and residential real estate, which is unusual. Most people are one or the other. And so my business model was quite different. And the book that I've written is about how to build a business model that suits your own style and personality and fits what you know so that you maximize your opportunity to be successful in the world of real estate. And you have to do that because did you know that there's 3 million real estate agents in the United States? Yeah, 3 million real estate agents and a million, 520,000 agents are affiliated with the National association of Realtors. Well, if you take that and you divide 320, roughly million people in the United States by 3 million, you can see that there's a whole lot of agents for not a whole lot of people. And, in fact, the neighborhood that I live in here has about 1500 homes, and there's probably 50 or more agents who live in this neighborhood, real estate agents. And then there's a lot of people who want to do business in this neighborhood. I live in Prosper, Texas, which is a very high income, high growth area, a booming area. And so when you think about the number of people there might be in my neighborhood, there might be 20 homes for every real estate agent that's in here. And so when you think about the competition in the real estate industry, you better have a good business model and a good plan to be successful in real estate, because a very high percentage of real estate agents fail in the first two years. And my book describes the current economy in real estate, the challenges that a person faces and then takes them through how to build a business model and the payoff. In my book, the thing that's probably the most important deliverable is chapter 38 of my book is a sample business model, the business model that I actually used to become successful. Some people could say, well, what was your success? Well, I was in the top 4% of real estate agents nationwide for over ten years in a row, and I was in the top 1% of agents in Texas for numerous years. And so when you think about in Dallas Fort Worth area alone, there's probably 18,000 real estate agents. There's a lot of real estate agents in the DFW area. And DFW area is a large 7.1 million people. But there's a large area, but still, that's a lot of real estate agents. And then one year, I won the award for the Dallas Builders association as the number one realtor in the DFW area. So I had a lot of success. But I had success because I had a good understanding of what my business model was. I understood how my personality and how my skill sets would fit with that. And my wife, my partner, and I developed a unique sales proposition, a business model that included commercial real estate, residential real estate, and consulting. And that was quite different than the typical real estate agent. Obviously, I have a lot of educational background, too, and so does my wife. But I think the key here is that you have to go into real estate with a plan of how you're going to be successful. And that plan has to include how you're going to be different with all those agents. You got to be different. It's great if you're better, but you better be different.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. There's a lot of ways to be successful. And it's a balance between finding what works best for you. And not having to recreate the wheel. Right. Like you're trying to find a model of success. But I know for me personally, I'm a huge introvert. I'm not the pound the phones type of person. Go talk to a bunch of new people. That's exhausting for me. And so I chose to work specifically with investors. Because I could work with fewer people, go deeper with them, help them buy multiple properties a year. Versus keeping a database of thousands and thousands of people when they buy a home once every seven to ten years. And so I know for me, that's something that works better for me. It hopefully helps me to be more successful longer than most agents who burn out in those first two years. Because they find it's much more difficult than they thought. And it's very challenging.
Sonny Moyers
Well, what you said, there is a very important understanding there, discussion about what you need to know about real estate. A lot of people. Well, if you think of a continuum, and on this continuum, you have people who are extreme extroverts. And you have people who are very introverted. Let's call it extreme or introverted. Okay? Now, on this continuum, there's all these people. All right? Now, about 50% of the people are more lean more toward extroverted. And about 50% lean more toward introverted. With various degrees within there. And so when you think about it, if you're an introverted person, the consultative approach, which is a problem solving approach, works better with your personality than a person who's selling or selling timeshares or something, okay? That's a different kind of personality. So really, from a pure perspective, a real estate agent whose personality is more toward the introverted side, using a consultative sales approach can appeal to almost all of the introverted side, including those who are extremely introverted, all the way over to a very large portion of the extroverted people. So you reach an audience of maybe 70 or 80% of the people in the continuum. So being an introvert is not a negative thing at all, especially with your business model. It's more of a consultative collaborating type model, rather than I'm a kingpin salesperson, I'm going to go out and sell to everybody. And then the other myth that I talk about in the book a great deal is the concept of law of the few. Have you read that before? The law of the. If you might remember, Malcolm Gladwell in one of his books, Tipping Point talks a great deal about the law of the few. I'm a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell. Greatest book, Blank Tipping Point, David and Goliath. And I use a lot of what he writes about in his books, in my book, because it's a serious book, it's a psychology based book. Well, the law of the few basically says that a few people, a small number of people, can start an epidemic or they can start a trend, something that changed. For example, he alludes to stories about the shoes, hush puppies, and how a small number of people made hush puppies very popular. A type of shoe that some people just absolutely love. Well, they set an entire trend and changed the market completely and made a product extremely successful with a very small number of people. Now, when you think about real estate, most people go into real estate thinking, I'm going to sell to the masses. I'm going to sell to a whole bunch of people unrelated, not necessarily connected to each other, and I'm going to make a whole bunch of home sales to a whole bunch of different people. And that's the opposite of what reality is in the real estate world. What happens in residential real estate particularly, is that you have a really good client who you help them and you help their family, and you help their sphere of influence find homes, and that's where you get the most business. So the law of the few basically says that if you have seven or eight or ten really good clients and those clients open up their sphere of influence to you, and that expands the number of potential clients exponentially, then you have a much better chance of trying to help them than you do trying to reach out to the masses through some broad advertising method, which is very expensive to do, and try to get a whole bunch of people. And then when you tie that to the fact that most real estate agents at the local level, where they actually look and sell real estate, particularly residential property, most of them work in a small geographic area. They don't work over a huge geographic area. So for example, in our area here, you might work with buyers in a broader area, but with listings in a specific geographic target area. And so when you think about the law of the few and you talk about marketing to these masses, when you market to the masses like radio or even social media, when you market via social media, you're marketing to a very broad group. And when you market by radio, you're marketing to a very large group. Now that might work for an agency, but for the agent in the trenches, the one trying to get business in this neighborhood where I live, it's really a very small geographic area and it's a very precise marketing technique. Now what you have to do is market to the 1500 homes in my neighborhood to identify what the four or five people who are ready to buy or sell, who can become one of those clients that will refer other people within their family, their sphere of influence and provide you significant revenue potential. And that's really the secret of success in real estate, is identifying where your market is and who they are. So in my case, we used a very comprehensive CRM client relationship management program. And that program allowed us to track where our business came from. So we took a ten year period and we tracked. And we, being an introverted person, you're going to love this analogy, because we took that CRM and tracked where all our business came from over a period of about ten years. And we identified that most 80% of our business started with 15 people. 15 people. Now those 15 people opened up their sphere of influence and allowed us to connect with other people who opened up their sphere of influence and allowed us to connect with them. And when we connected with them, we had a warm referral. We had a warm person rather than a cold person. And so that's their secret to our success is identifying. Another key term in this discussion is a connector. A connector which Gladwell refers to as someone who's a, let's call it a social magnet. They attract people, they collect friends. Well, his analysis of that was that if you can find a connector, I think he refers to some very famous connectors in his books. But if you find the connectors in your neighborhood and those connectors talk about you and refer you and recommend you, they become raving fans. If you've read the book, Ken Blanchard's book, raving fans, and those people who become raving fans, but are also connectors, those people are. That's in fact, when you use it as a joke about somebody who you meet and they drop a bunch of names with you real quickly, that's who you want. They know everybody.
Mike Swenson
I was going to say, thinking about when we first bought our first property, I actually got connected. And I tell this story to my agents over time because it shows how you never know what relationship is going to be. The relationship that pops like that.
Sonny Moyers
Sure.
Mike Swenson
And it can come from an unexpected source. So we first got started because I'm a planner. I knew when we were thinking about buying a home. And so probably about a year to a year and a half ahead of that time, I went to a first time Homebuyer seminar. And it was an agent that at the time, I realized now, after the fact, she was relatively new at that time, but it was a newer agent and a lender that did a first time home buyer seminar. And I went and I sat in it and I got her business card. Right. And because, like I said, I'm an introvert. And because I was still. I think I was still. Maybe I just graduated college at that time, I didn't know a ton of people that were real estate agents. I hung onto that card, and a year later, when I was ready to buy, I called up the one person that I knew that I had went to their first time homebuyer seminar. Obviously, she didn't remember who I was because it was a year later and we purchased a property with her. And then fast forward, I think it was maybe over five or six years between our purchases and the people we referred to her. I think I counted like 15 different sides. And so it was a coworker, it was a friend of a relative who was an investor. But 15 sides came from that one piece of business. That was a first time homebuyer seminar, which for people that aren't in real estate, you do those as a way to try to find those first time buyers. But the likelihood of establishing that relationship is a challenge. But that one seminar led to 15 pieces of business.
Sonny Moyers
Well, and that brings us to the fact that when you have a client in real estate, they are an extremely valuable asset. And so you have to have a good account planning process. You have to have an account planning process, and you have to have an account planning, and you have to have a client management program to work with your account planning process. Now, what would that look like? That would look like me understanding and getting close enough to you that you would disclose to me your family members who might have a reason to move here, to be willing to open up your sphere of friends and influencers, people you know, and you have a relationship with them, that when you recommend me it's the inside track to success. Now that account plan describes you, all the various components and people that you know, and develops a plan for how I'm going to work with you to cause you to want to refer me. And the success in real estate is done because your clients not only want to have you be successful, they want you to have you make money, and they want to refer you to their friends so that their friends can benefit from the quality and level of service you provide the same way they did. So that brings us to the concept of really a real estate practice, which is what I write about in my book, how to develop a real estate practice that stays solid through 20 years. That's why I've been in real estate 50 plus years, because I've been successful in every market, up and down throughout, and I've done a lot of different things in real estate and been successful for a long period of time. Well, when you think about building a practice with foundation of fundamental concepts like professionalism is synonymous with value. Okay? That concept is that it's a universal concept. It applies to almost every professional services company. When someone sees someone who's highly professional, they automatically are perceived as having higher value. And that implied or imputed value, imputed value in that person is psychological. It's not necessarily proven, but they feel it and they believe it. And that's part of that intuitive thing we're talking about. So if you as an agent demonstrate professionalism in everything you do, then you build intrinsically in the person that you're talking to, the belief that you have more value. And so the professionalism is synonymous with the value concept written about in the book, talks about how you do that. So what I want to do when I'm working with a client, I want to work with them in such a way as to make such a powerful, overwhelming presentation filled with such benefit and value, that the prospect feels compelled psychologically, intrinsically, to choose me. And that approach, looking at this from that perspective, is everything you do and everything that you do in real estate is about branding, professionalism, quality. And if you have a business model that drives you toward that goal, you're likely to be successful. Okay? Most people come into real estate never having written a marketing plan, never having written a business plan. Maybe they've never done a business model because they don't know what to envision. So what my book does, it explains how to build a business model and how it gives a sample business model that will allow you to build a target audience of who you want to go to select your profit centers, how you want to build your business, identify the strategies and tactics for reaching that market, and put together a plan for how to do that. That's what my book does.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. And I know a lot of agents for those that maybe aren't in the agent plugged into the agent world as much. There's some lawsuits that are out there currently where we're talking about commissions charged and buyer agency and that sort of thing. And I see in a lot of these Facebook groups and whatnot, agents are thinking like, we're all going to hell in a handbasket because of these lawsuits. But the reality is, when you come back to value, right, if I was an accountant, right, people are willing to pay for an accountant because they provide value. But agents don't think about value. They just think like, oh, so and so is charging so and so if I charging x, so if I just undercut them a little bit, that's going to be how I get business. Right?
Sonny Moyers
That's a recipe for disaster, right?
Mike Swenson
I'm going to try to compete on price. But like you said, being in the industry for 50 years, you have a ton of value, you have a ton of knowledge and experience where people are willing to pay for that because you're a professional and you're not trying to just charge the cheapest to get somebody's business.
Sonny Moyers
Well, not the cheapest. And in fact, in some cases, I charged more depending upon the assignment. For example, when I work with a commercial project, I might charge more than what some people would charge, and then the client has to either believe that I'm worth it or I'm not. I didn't have a standard price. Okay? And that's what the lawsuits are about.
Mike Swenson
Right?
Sonny Moyers
And so when you think about what I did, I did not charge a standard price for anything. It was based upon what the project was, what I was going to provide, versus what other people's provided. Other people provided, other agents provided. And so my business model was not a discount broker. My business model, I charged 7% sometimes for listing homes, and that was above what people were charging. And I charged less than that at times, depending upon was that person a connector in a strategic target market that would refer me to their friends and would not tell their friends that I reduced my fee? So my prices were always open for negotiation and discussion. And that's what the suit is about, is people who go in with a set standard, industry standard type pricing, and we didn't do that. And so I happen to think that when you have to stand on your own merit when you work with client. Let me just draw an analogy for you. You walk into a ballroom in a wonderful hotel, and you walk into that ballroom and you find that there are 399 people in that ballroom and they all are wearing gray suits or clothing. And all 399 of them have salesperson stamped across the forehead, okay? And all of them profess to be the best. All of them profess to be professional, highly professional. Now, one person walks into the room and they're wearing blue, not gray, and they have, I care about you stamped on their forehead. And they are different, they look different, they act differently than the other 399. In real estate, you have to be distinctive, you have to be different. You have to have what we call differentiating factors. And those differentiating factors allow you to demonstrate to a person that you are in fact different. Now, it's nice if you're better. I always felt that I was better too. But you have to be different. You have to be noticeable and you have to be able to point out how you are different and in that way better. And collaborating and consultative approach is a great way to have differentiating factors. Okay? So when you think about, you got these group of people and there's 399 of them, who would the typical buyer choose? There's 399 all alike, right? Who would the typical seller choose? They look all alike, they act alike, they talk alike. I want the one who gets my attention. Otherwise I would select three, interview three and then choose one. Right. Now, if they're all alike and they all provide the same things. And that's further accentuated by the fact that there's so much copycat marketing going on. All these agents see what the other agents are doing and they copy it. And it's not distinctively different, it's not unique, it's not branded with you. It's not branded with you. And so when you think about that, they're going to choose among three people that are basically the same. They might be called ubiquitous. Now in that situation, what would you expect? If they're all the same? I'll take the lowest fee. So I want to be different. I want to be able to not only point out that I'm different, but that I'm better. And here's why. And if you don't have a plan that allows you to do that, then you'll fall in there with the masses of all the other 3 million agents in the United States. And you'll have to compete based upon your commission rate being lower because you can't demonstrate a difference. That pricing analysis and strategy is the difference between being a highly profitable real estate agent. Now, my business model was one based on profitability, not volume. And there's a difference. Volume would be how many millions of dollars of real estate did you sell? Profitability is how much money did you make in net profit at the end of the year? And my business model was based upon profitability.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. And a lot of people want to agents, you like to plug the numbers and you still have a lot of volume, but it's about how much you keep and what that means for your family.
Sonny Moyers
Well, let me give you an example. I did a $7 million lease in a large building. What did that count on? My volume and my agency? Zero. What did it count on? Profit. To me, a lot. My commission on that deal was about $300,000. Okay, so I had a $300,000 profit. Was I after profit or volume? If I was out for volume, I'd want to sell 25 houses to add up to $70 million so that I could have volume. Right. Well, doing one very large lease in a large building and making $300,000 is a heck of a lot more profitable than selling 25 homes plus time. It's not less difficult, it's more complex in the sense of the type of work you're doing is more complex. But the net result is if your business model drives you toward achievement of your goals based upon this. Now, if you're getting into real estate and if you've never done a business model, and that's where having someone with expertise and experience is valuable, because it shortens the cycle of how long you need to be successful in real estate. The typical real estate agent who's a NAR member, who's been in real estate for two years, guess how much they made in 2022? Less than $10,000.02 years or less. The average income was under $10,000. Very high percentage of agents. So when you think about how long it takes you to become successful, how long does it takes you to become profitable and make enough money to sustain yourself and grow your business, invest back in marketing and branding, and do the things you need to do to be successful, it's very difficult to do if you don't have a plan. A very high percentage of people who fail in real estate fail because they think that if they get their license and they affiliate with a good brand, a good company, and that if they just show up, people will start coming to them and buy homes. And that's not the case you might go into real estate and sell a few family members or a friend a home, but you're not going to be successful over a long period of time unless you have a good business plan, a good model.
Mike Swenson
Absolutely. And you've touched on so many great concepts that we could spend hours on each of these concepts. Right. And just to point out to people, your book. So the architecture of the real estate practice is very in depth. It's meant to be a go back to type book, not just a quick read. Let's read it once. But it's meant to be a resource for people to go back and plug in. And so for people that want to learn more about the book, for people that want to learn more about this stuff at a deeper level, how can they do so well?
Sonny Moyers
You can go to the book [email protected], realestatebook.org. And you can go to my own [email protected], and my email is [email protected], and my company is the Renaissance group. You can also go to my YouTube channel, which is on YouTube. By the way, the book has exclusive content and QR codes in the book. So you're reading the book and you see a QR code. You can go to that QR code and connect to my YouTube channel and see a video about the content in that chapter.
Mike Swenson
Nice.
Sonny Moyers
Get new information that you didn't have. And this is an added value. Now, one of the most important things in the book, I've coded all the conversations I have in the book demonstrating the language of real estate. Anytime I'm talking, it's in purple. And anytime someone is talking, else is talking, it's in red, the book's in color. It's a hardback book, eight by ten. And it's a 300 page book. This is more like a textbook than it is the typical book that you see in real estate. It's not about how to make a million dollars overnight. It's not about how easy it is to be in real estate. It's not about joining the country club and entertaining your clients. It's about how you run a real estate practice. So when you think about how to get hold of me, you can also Google Sonny Moyers realtor DFW area, and you'll find a lot about agents.
Mike Swenson
We need to be found, so we need people to be able to google us.
Sonny Moyers
Yeah. And I'm a big believer in unique marketing. I'm a big believer in branding. And I think that your clients, I hope I've helped your audience. That's the most important thing, because what I want to do, I want to share with you. I'm at a point now in my life where I don't want to work 70 hours a week. But let me just make one key point to people who are looking at a career in real estate. You have to understand the law of sacrificed alternatives. It, and that basically is that if you're going to be in real estate and residential real estate, you better be prepared to work weekends. And that means you better give up how much in every ball game on every weekend. And you may not be able to take the kids to the park on Sunday, because if you're successful, you will have many people clamoring to meet with you. And many times they want to meet with you in evenings or on weekends. So a lot of people go into real estate with misconceptions. One, they were told by someone, maybe their agent, you know, Mike, you'd be really good in real estate. And they believed them. They had a good personality, they had a pleasant demeanor. Maybe they looked a really good part for being an agent, but they didn't prepare them for what they would have to do to be successful in real estate. And they also went into real estate. They'll ask an agent, someone, they'll say, how do you get into real estate? And the agent says, oh, well, you take this test, it's easy. You pass the test, you go and join up with an agency and you become an agent. And on your business card, you put out this business card that says your designations. I'm an expert in such. And such designations on a business card are shallow proof. This discussion we've had today should be a perception sale. It should be the belief from listening to this discussion that Sonny, this guy, this realtor, knows a heck of a lot about real estate. That's a perception. It doesn't necessarily make you any money, but it changes the perception of the audience or the client as to your ability to help them. That's called a perception sale, and I teach that in my book. If you don't make perception sales, you probably don't sign up a whole lot of clients. One other key concept called casting the marketing net, it's a visualization concept of how to cast a net over a prospect and capture them and hold them in the net long enough to make a perception sale so that they believe that you know more than the average agent.
Mike Swenson
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I mean, obviously you've got a ton of experience, a ton of value to add to people. If you're listening to this, check out the book and use it and apply it to your business. So thank you so much, Sonny, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it.
Sonny Moyers
Mike, thank you so much. It's been a great interview, and I appreciate your time very much.
